Author Topic: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread  (Read 5185 times)

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Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
I DID, and confirmed that the Leviathan in that pack is NOT the new one, though the table file is expecting it.
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Offline Nightmare

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
My bad; but the files Knossos provides are identical to those in the separate downloads.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
I do not see this issue here. Please post a debug log after loading the Leviathan in the F3 Lab.
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Offline Nightmare

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
-Rahu related things
-I noticed that mv_assets_s-shp.tbm tries to add several missile turrets as primary turrets ($Default PBanks:   ( "Piranha#Shivan" )). Viewing the tbl entry, it appears that this bug was already carried over from retail. The turrets instead all contain various primary weapons.

Forgot to mention that this only affects the Sathanas. :banghead:

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
I figured it out.  The new Leviathan IS in there, but so is the Fenris-based one.  The new one is named leviathan.pof, while the older one is cruiser01x.pof.  SAH was looking for new one as cruiser01x.pof, and the submodel subsystem references for the new one were in the tables expecting it to be cruiser01x.pof.  So, it turns out that its more SAH's fault than MVP3.8.  I'm not sure if retaining the older Fenris-based model in the 3.8 MVPs was an oversight or just for backwards compatibility.

Sorry.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
Okay hold up hold up. I know this is kind of a dick complaint, but I really liked the '[year] MVPS' format for MVP names, I think it was much easier for users to understand. Are these officially and forever the 3.8 MVPs, or can we do 2018 MVPs?

The reason I ask is a reddit user trying to figure out whether '3.8' or '2014' is newer.

 

Offline Rhymes

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
I think part of it is that Knossos needs version numbers, which led to the 2014 mediavps needing to get redesignated as 3.7.2 for Knossos, hence the return. Maybe we could do something like 2018 MediaVps 3.8, since version numbers only ever go up.
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Offline Nightmare

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
Which kind of version numbers does Knossos support? Or is it impossible to name them 2018.1, 2018.2 and so on?

 

Offline PIe

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
I don't really care that much about 2018 vs. 3.8.x except that it be consistent.  When I first started playing FS, I was confused whether 3.6.12 or 2014 was newer.  As long as the version numbers are comparable, it's pretty easy to figure out that higher is better/newer.  If I had to pick, I'd pick the 3.8.x scheme because it's already compatible with semantic versioning, which has some nice advantages like letting you know at a glance how major of an update a new version is.
You could rename the MVPs 2018.1.0, 2018.2.0, etc. in Knossos, but that would just confuse everyone who already has it figured out.
Honestly, if you're just using Knossos, which everyone who can't figure this out should be, it's not a problem.  If you want to play FS2 with upgraded visuals, you just install the MVPs and Knossos will give you the latest ones automatically.  If a certain mod requires an older version, Knossos should pretty much take care of that seamlessly.
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Offline jr2

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
Okay hold up hold up. I know this is kind of a dick complaint, but I really liked the '[year] MVPS' format for MVP names, I think it was much easier for users to understand. Are these officially and forever the 3.8 MVPs, or can we do 2018 MVPs?

The reason I ask is a reddit user trying to figure out whether '3.8' or '2014' is newer.
Which kind of version numbers does Knossos support? Or is it impossible to name them 2018.1, 2018.2 and so on?

Oh heck, can we just do 2018_3.8?  Year, version, done.  Knossos can either ignore the year or use it; shouldn't matter.

 

Offline Nightmare

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
And what if patch 3 is released in 2019? It would be called 2019_3.8.3 then, what would be confusing as hell IMO. Maybe create a voting/discussion thread whether 2018.2 or 3.8.2?

Plus this:
Quote
Honestly, if you're just using Knossos, which everyone who can't figure this out should be, it's not a problem.  If you want to play FS2 with upgraded visuals, you just install the MVPs and Knossos will give you the latest ones automatically.  If a certain mod requires an older version, Knossos should pretty much take care of that seamlessly.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 04:44:22 pm by Nightmare »

 

Offline Iain Baker

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
This is something that may confuse newbies if they are trying out older mods, so this probably needs sorting. Going forward it will be less of an issue since almost all new mods / updated mods will use 3.8.X or later. That will make it easier after that since everyone will be on the numbering scheme.

A very simple work-around is to simply create a list showing the order they were created and put it somewhere very easily accessible - perhaps as text in knossos itself or in the upcoming noob's guide. This should also point out that Knossos will use the most up-to-date MVP a particular campaign/mod is compatible with, and that trying to force a mod to use more recent MVPs than it was designed for may cause glitches/crashes etc.

"MVP order, oldest first.

Retail FS2
3.6.10
3.6.12
3.7.2 (Also known as MVPs 2014
3.8.X"

The list can then be updates when new MVPs are created. Easy peasy :-)



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Offline Nightmare

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
MJN stated that he wanted to update more frequently, so I'm afraid the list would be confusingly long at some point. Currently out are 3.8.0, 3.8.1 and 3.8.2.

Question: are the files for all previous sub-versions (3.8.0 and 3.8.1) archieved/available on Knossos or are only the main revisons backwards compatible?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 07:45:43 pm by Nightmare »

 

Offline PIe

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
This is something that may confuse newbies if they are trying out older mods, so this probably needs sorting. Going forward it will be less of an issue since almost all new mods / updated mods will use 3.8.X or later. That will make it easier after that since everyone will be on the numbering scheme.
Why?  I can't state this strongly enough; Knossos takes care of this.  There is no reason to mention version numbers to a newbie except when debugging, which is a completely different scenario.  Just tell people to install Knossos and download the MVPs.  Knossos will work its magic in the background to ensure they're using the correct version.
A very simple work-around is to simply create a list showing the order they were created and put it somewhere very easily accessible - perhaps as text in knossos itself or in the upcoming noob's guide. This should also point out that Knossos will use the most up-to-date MVP a particular campaign/mod is compatible with, and that trying to force a mod to use more recent MVPs than it was designed for may cause glitches/crashes etc.
Again, no reason to even bring up the possibility that you can force using a different version or that some mods use different versions.
Question: are the files for all previous sub-versions (3.8.0 and 3.8.1) archieved/available on Knossos
https://fsnebula.org/mod/<mod_id>/x.x.x.  For example, https://fsnebula.org/mod/MVPS/3.7.2.  Unless the mod dev deletes the previous version(s), they remain publicly available.
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[6:24 PM] Axem: 22nd armored hq, i order you to get me a cup of coffee
[6:24 PM] PIe: and donuts
[6:24 PM] PIe: BECAUSE THIS IS THE GTVA POLICE
[6:25 PM] Axem: :O
[6:25 PM] Axem: am i under arrest
[6:26 PM] [`_`]/: no, just please step out of the myrmidon
[6:26 PM] [`_`]/: you have so much to fred for

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
Ahahaha the irony. When we used MediaVPs 2014 instead of the old versioning there was a similar backlash. Ya'll are impossible.

We're sticking with the current versioning. 3.8.x is essentially the same, save for bugfixes.

Changes to the last number is effectively the same as patches the older versions used to do. They just never increased a minor version number which is now required for knossos. Backwards compatibility should be unaffected by these minor updates.

Additionally, players using knossos shouldn't be having an "is 2014 newer or older" problem. Players not using knossos should read the release thread in full because it includes links to all older versions. The linked release thread for 3.7.2/2014 explains the rebrand in big bold red letters. If people are getting downloads and/or information outside of these 2 locations, it's out of my control and whoever is making those Reddit posts or whatever need to do it right.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 08:27:59 pm by mjn.mixael »
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Offline ngld

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
Apparently the problem was that he was using the FSO Installer which lists the 2014 MVPs and the 3.8.2 MVPs without explaining which is newer. I'll send Goober a PM to change the label to 3.7.2.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
The backlash to the 2014 MVPs was over versioning them at all, which is a lot less of a problem with Knossos/a working installer.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
The backlash to the 2014 MVPs was over versioning them at all, which is a lot less of a problem with Knossos/a working installer.

Lol wut

We had 3.6.9zeta, 3.6.10, 3.6.12, and it was finally in 2014 that people had a problem with versions?
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
Oh. Er, whenever we started doing versions, that's when people got mad. Look, I don't know, just make the numbers get bigger.

  

Offline Vidmaster

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Re: MediaVPs 3.8 Discussion Thread
Release Version 86 already  :nervous:

Anyway, downloading an updated copy today and trying it out.
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