[Nightmare]

I think railguns as cool as they are would kick the balance of the war, atleast the way they are in INFA and especially if only 1 side could deploy them in sufficient amounts. They're not as powerful as beam weapons, but the blob turrets are useless against capships. The blob turrets are also useless against shields, but Terrans and Vasudans didn't had them during T-V war. Still without the Shivan tech, the Hades only advantage was its huge amount of HP. But as ST showed that they can be removed, slowly and steadily.

[0rph3u5]

An interesting suggestion Orpheus. Reminds me of your work with the Lost Generation - such things investigate the human question and not just "two one-dimensional galactic powers head to head"

I know it is rude to dismiss a compliment like this, but I am not that deep.

I just remember the lesson from the creative writing class I never actually had, that Choice is a basic road to Complication and Complication being just a step before Conflict, and Conflict is a way how you make something interesting to your audience.

[Nyctaeus]

Plus Railgun is a canon weapon. GTA might develop large-scale variants of this to mount on their Orions and Leviathans.

In Unborn Legacy I wanted to arm terran warships with railguns and swarm torpedoes, akin to UEF. I always loved UEF weaponry. BP team did a great job at arming the Federation and it's my primary source of inspiration for years. Terrans also use cluster torpedoes and three types of blobs [standard, pulse cannons and shotgun turrets] to defend their capships. PVN at the other side, use plasma drivers + single, but powerful torpedoes as a main weapons of their warships. Their weapons are heavier, slower but have overally higher damage output. Their capships are protected with blobs, burst turrets, flak cannons and swarm missiles.

Shield matter is another thing. In UL both GTA and PVN developed shielding technology independently from shivans, so they were supposed to look different to their equivalents from main timeline. It is mostly balancing issue, but I'm wondering if shields could be developed without examination of shivan technology.

...and I found something

[Nightmare]

It seems that atleast GTA was working on something shield-like:

Early experiments with energy based defenses like the deflector array at Ross 128 have shown that this weapon is exceedingly weak against anything besides steel based targets.

- https://wiki.hard-light.net/index.php/GTM_MX-50

[HLD_Prophecy]

If I had been to design a weaponry paradigm for Terrans, I always felt that it would be cool for them to have (what I'd call) an "iron" or "steel" weaponry system. No energy weapons, those cost too much power. Massive ballistic cannons firing huge HE or AP shells in a straight line (easier to evade than beams, yes). Limited amounts of massive guided torpedoes, launching with a flaming blast from huge dorsal silos or front-mounted tubes. And light, short range, swarming missiles complemented by space machine guns for close-in defense.

Whereas the Zods and Shivans would be the one with beams and lasers. I think that would have made the races feel a bit more alien to each other. As it is, I was always surprised at how similar Terran and Vasudan weaponry is: beams, blobs, missiles, etc. Of course that was very much in the interest of  as it saved time on multiple levels, but still.

[CT27]

I'd love to play a campaign where Shivans didn't show up and the T-V War was carried to a conclusion.


Like people have talked about, what would be done with the Hades?  If the campaign was from the Terran POV and you wanted to give them a superweapon to beat the Vasudans who had better conventional destroyers (the consensus seems to be Typhons are better than Orions at least)...how would you enhance it other than just a lot of hp?

[Nightmare]

If you want to enhance it, railguns are probably the best way to go. As long as you restrict them to a few ships (what would be reasonable as you can't use the latest technology directly everywhere) it would be still within range. Yet I doubt that the war would have come to a conclusion. I could very well imagine that there have been several occasions where one side had a technological/tactical advantage, conquered a few systems, lost their advantage (Intel acquiring tech/information, rushed deployment of their own advanced technology) and were pushed back again. Even with all their advantages the Shivans did not conquer T/V space all at once, and I don't see where the resources required for one side to win should come from.

[rubixcube]

If you want to enhance it, railguns are probably the best way to go. As long as you restrict them to a few ships (what would be reasonable as you can't use the latest technology directly everywhere) it would be still within range. Yet I doubt that the war would have come to a conclusion. I could very well imagine that there have been several occasions where one side had a technological/tactical advantage, conquered a few systems, lost their advantage (Intel acquiring tech/information, rushed deployment of their own advanced technology) and were pushed back again. Even with all their advantages the Shivans did not conquer T/V space all at once, and I don't see where the resources required for one side to win should come from.

Keep in mind the goals of both sides were considerably less ambitious than the shivans. There was never a desire for either species to totally conquer and wipe out the other, more like grab control of a few key systems.

[TrashMan]

But when I first played FS1 my headcanon was that there was no end in sight to the war. The Vasudans had a major edge with the Typhon destroyer, definitely a better ship than the Orion at that time.

I disagree. All the Tripple Terran Heavy Turrets would give a big advantage to the Orion in brawl.

On a semi-related note, the lack of any ship classes between the cruisers and destroyers bugs me.
Also, the big blob turrets really need an buff in such a campaign.

[HLD_Prophecy]

But when I first played FS1 my headcanon was that there was no end in sight to the war. The Vasudans had a major edge with the Typhon destroyer, definitely a better ship than the Orion at that time.

I disagree. All the Tripple Terran Heavy Turrets would give a big advantage to the Orion in brawl.

On a semi-related note, the lack of any ship classes between the cruisers and destroyers bugs me.
Also, the big blob turrets really need an buff in such a campaign.

Possibly, depends on the angle of engagement. In addition the Typhon was tougher, carried more fightercraft, and had more anti-fighter weaponry. Remember the tech description, it definitely takes the Typhon seriously as a threat and credits it with the destruction of at least one Orion.

[TrashMan]

That refers to it's fighter complement.

The vasudans seemed to have better bombers early on.

[General Battuta]

Keep in mind the goals of both sides were considerably less ambitious than the shivans. There was never a desire for either species to totally conquer and wipe out the other, more like grab control of a few key systems.

The Harbinger is designed for pre-emptive attacks against civilian targets. Genocide was on the table.

[Nightmare]

Keep in mind the goals of both sides were considerably less ambitious than the shivans. There was never a desire for either species to totally conquer and wipe out the other, more like grab control of a few key systems.

The Harbinger is designed for pre-emptive attacks against civilian targets. Genocide was on the table.

GTA and PVN probably had various aims and tactics throughout the war which were applied depending on how it went for them.
In the end, despite 14 years of TV-war AND the Great war the colonies alone (Sol cut off, VP leveled) were able to construct the Colossus and a lot of other ships, despite the colonies having been the main battlefield of both wars.

[General Battuta]

I don't get it. I'm just arguing that there was definitely preparation for major countervalue warfare.

[Nightmare]

I don't doubt that, but was so kind to provide as little as possible over the TV-war. FS1 was written in a way you could not guess that much either, so you have to look at what was left at a later point. Also Terrans and Vasudans seem to get along rather well in FS1 shortly after the Shivans pop up; unlike in Exile. So if they had bombed each other frequently that would be different; so the threat to use (mass-)violence against civilians in occupied territory was certainly there, like in any other war.

[Firesteel]

To be fair a totally unknowable threat that you have no way of talking to is a come to Jesus moment.

I always have viewed the T-V war as analogous to WWI. I'd say the missions we see in FS1 are important enough that the animosity that exists between the Terrans and Vasudans is relatively insignificant. There also aren't too many joint missions that aren't incredibly high stakes if I recall. We're never going to get a clear answer as to whether or not there was large scale attacks on civilians by either side's military, but the language :V: uses around the harbinger backs up what Battuta is saying and I think the Harbinger is very much the equivalent of nuclear weapons in the Cold War.

[General Battuta]

I don't doubt that, but was so kind to provide as little as possible over the TV-war. FS1 was written in a way you could not guess that much either, so you have to look at what was left at a later point. Also Terrans and Vasudans seem to get along rather well in FS1 shortly after the Shivans pop up; unlike in Exile. So if they had bombed each other frequently that would be different; so the threat to use (mass-)violence against civilians in occupied territory was certainly there, like in any other war.

We nuked Japan twice and undertook massive strategic bombing of their civilians, but both of us were so pants-****tingly afraid of Communism that we became close military and cultural allies anyway.

[General Battuta]

Shivans are red :thonking:

[Nightmare]

We nuked Japan twice and undertook massive strategic bombing of their civilians, but both of us were so pants-****tingly afraid of Communism that we became close military and cultural allies anyway.

True but I was reffering to the dialogs of pilots and low-ranking officers.

[Firesteel]

We nuked Japan twice and undertook massive strategic bombing of their civilians, but both of us were so pants-****tingly afraid of Communism that we became close military and cultural allies anyway.

True but I was reffering to the dialogs of pilots and low-ranking officers.

There's that old quote about no atheist in a foxhole. See also the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", especially in the situations the FS1 pilots are in. Space combat is also far less personal than ground wars in the 20th century.