Author Topic: OT - We're Killing The World  (Read 27113 times)

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Offline Kellan

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OT - We're Killing The World
Here's the article that I was looking for earlier. It's from the Guardian, but is culled from the World Bank's 2002 development report. Having looked at the whole thing, it's not terribly different from the article - just a lot drier.

---

New York City in 2022. Half the 40 million people in the swarming metropolis are unemployed, the air is thick with pollution, food and water are as precious as jewels. This was the world of the future as envisaged in the sci-fi thriller, Soylent Green, in 1973. Now, according to the World Bank, it could come true unless there are dramatic and immediate changes to the way we live.
Unlike the Charlton Heston movie, the Bank does not suggest that we will be making food from dead bodies in 20 years' time. But its warning of an increasingly dysfunctional global society, with enormous pressure on basic resources such as water, energy and health, is remarkably similar.

Looking into its crystal ball, the Bank sees a world of nine billion people by mid-century generating a global GDP of $140 trillion a year. This staggering fourfold increase in the size of the world economy would be enough to guarantee a large-scale reduction in the 1.2 billion people living on less than a dollar a day, but the Bank argues that the price will be environmental catastrophe, social breakdown and lower living standards for everyone if policies remain unchanged.

Released to coincide with next week's summit on sustainable development in Johannesburg, the Washington-based institution's annual world development report sounds the alarm bell for global leaders as they prepare for 10 days of talks, providing a nightmarish prophecy of what could happen if they fail to turn rhetoric into action.

It's not all bad news. The Bank says that economic growth is vital for tackling poverty, with a 3.6% a year increase in per capita incomes needed in developing countries if the world is to achieve the 2015 targets set by the United Nations of halving the number of people living on less than a dollar a day, reducing infant mortality by two thirds and giving every child a primary school education. It adds, however, that coordinating globally and acting locally will be critical to ensuring that gains in social indicators - such as incomes, literacy rates, or access to sanitation - of the past 20 years are not reversed by population growth pressures and unsustainable economic expansion.

"This growth must be achieved in a manner that preserves our future," said Ian Johnson, vice-president of the Bank's environmentally and socially sustainable development network. "It would be reckless of us to reach successfully the millennium development goals in 2015, only to be confronted by dysfunctional cities, dwindling water supplies, more inequality and conflict and even less crop land to sustain us than we have now."

The report contains a litany of potential ecological and social problems, from slum-ridden urban dystopias to an increase to the 1.3 billion people who already live on fragile lands which cannot sustain them. Already, it says, the "biosphere's capacity to absorb carbon dioxide without altering temperatures has been compromised because of heavy reliance on fossil fuels for energy. Greenhouse gas emissions will continue to grow unless a concerted effort is made to increase energy efficiency and reduce dependency on fossil fuels."

Nearly two million hectares of land worldwide (23% of all crop land, pasture, forest and woodland) have been degraded since the 1950s, a fifth of all tropical forests have been cleared since 1960 and one third of terrestial biodiversity is squeezed into vulnerable habitats making up just 1.4% of the earth's surface.

Unsurprisingly, the Bank concludes that these trends cannot continue. "The $140 trillion world of five decades' time simply cannot be sustained on current production and consumption patterns," said Nick Stern, the Bank's chief economist. "A major transformation, beginning in the rich countries, will be needed to ensure that poor people have an opportunity to participate, and that the environment is not damaged in a way that undermines their opportunities for the future."

So what is the Bank's blueprint for sustainable development? It says:

· developing countries should act to clean up their governments, promoting participation and democracy, inclusiveness and transparency as they build the institutions needed to manage their resources;

· rich countries need to be less selfish by increasing aid, offering more generous debt relief, opening their markets to developing country exporters and helping transfer technologies needed to prevent diseases, increase energy efficiency and bolster agricultural productivity;

· civil society organisations should be encouraged to serve as a voice for the weak and powerless, and to provide independent verification of public, private and non-governmental performance;

· private firms should be more focused on sustainability in their day to day activities, and have incentives to pursue profit while advancing environmental and social objectives.

"The world must act to help its poorest people manage their own resources and build their productivity and incomes now, to empower these communities and help them prepare for the demands of the decades ahead," said Mr Stern. "Rich countries can take such a step by opening their markets to developing world exports and by abandoning agricultural subsidies and other barriers to trade that depress prices and limit market opportunities for the very goods that poor people produce most competitively."

Given that the average income in the richest 20 countries in the world is 37 times that in the poorest 20, the Bank feels that the rich west is in a position to make concessions. "It seems to me there is a certain hypocrisy about rich countries telling poor countries to undertake radical reform. The kind of changes we have got to make in the west are much smaller than the kinds of reforms rich countries are asking poor countries to make all the time," Mr Stern told the Guardian.

So far, the willingness of the developed west to abandon protectonist policies has not been much in evidence and, as the Bank recognises in four open questions posed in the conclusion to the report, there are potential pitfalls ahead.

The first is the issue of when consumption is overconsumption. Telling consumers in the west that they have to cut back is not relished by politicians. But the Bank wonders whether consumption will become the modern equivalent of the Cold War arms race; will people in the developing world see the norm as patterns of consumption in the west?

The second vexed issue highlighted by the report is the future of agriculture and of genetically modified organisms. The United States is eager to export GM foods to developing countries, often in the teeth of ferocious local opposition. Should this be encouraged? The Bank is not sure. "Applying the precautionary principle - balancing risks to food safety and the environment against prospects for development and poverty alleviation - will be a difficult task, requiring a broader debate on credible information."

Third, the Bank is concerned about the system of intellectual property rights presided over by the World Trade Organisation. How can the interests of patent holders be balanced against those of the users of products? The system in place has strengthened the hand of western corporations at the expense of poor countries. The potential for unequal outcomes is "worrisome", the Bank says.

Finally, what are the prospects for global migration? The report says that global inequality, combined with demographic trends, will create ever more pressure for migration. "Dealing with this pressure is a challenge worldwide."

The report concludes that the planet will face predictable challenges which will increase in intensity over the coming decades. But the fact that the Bank has no pat answers to its four questions suggests that they will take years, if not decades, to resolve. If the Bank is right, the most precious resource of all over the next half century could be time.

Sustainable Development in a Dynamic World. This report is available on http://www.worldbank.org/wdr

---

Above all else, that is why I dislike America. Now, given that we're all going to be living with this problem for the next 50 years, I'd like to know what you think. :)

 

Offline LtNarol

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OT - We're Killing The World
The human race is the most dangerous virus on Earth.  We move into an area, adapt it to meet our needs, drain it of its resources, double our numbers, and move on, leaving behind a large desert behind us.  While this is not something we see everyday, this is exactly what we are doing when you look at the planet as a whole, and someday when we run out of resources here we will look to another planet to ruin, presumably Mars.

EDIT: as for the US consuming the more energy than any other nation, the US also produces more energy than any other nation.  While polution may be bad in some parts of the US, the US also has more trees than many other nations and many nations (3rd world in particular) are far worse about overpopulation, unimployment, and polution.  Two sides to every coin.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2002, 05:01:47 pm by 528 »

 

Offline Sandwich

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Re: OT - We're Killing The World
Quote
Originally posted by Kellan
Given that the average income in the richest 20 countries in the world is 37 times that in the poorest 20, the Bank feels that the rich west is in a position to make concessions. "It seems to me there is a certain hypocrisy about rich countries telling poor countries to undertake radical reform. The kind of changes we have got to make in the west are much smaller than the kinds of reforms rich countries are asking poor countries to make all the time," Mr Stern told the Guardian.


Agreed.
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Blue Lion

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Re: OT - We're Killing The World
Quote
Originally posted by Kellan
rich countries need to be less selfish by increasing aid, offering more generous debt relief, opening their markets to developing country exporters and helping transfer technologies needed to prevent diseases, increase energy efficiency and bolster agricultural productivity


What's to encourage them to do anything if we keep giving them money?


Quote
So far, the willingness of the developed west to abandon protectonist policies has not been much in evidence


Yah, it was called colonialism, we dumped money on countries and expected something out of it. I'd rather nations work on their own problems before shelling out money to other nations


Quote
The second vexed issue highlighted by the report is the future of agriculture and of genetically modified organisms. The United States is eager to export GM foods to developing countries, often in the teeth of ferocious local opposition. Should this be encouraged? The Bank is not sure. "Applying the precautionary principle - balancing risks to food safety and the environment against prospects for development and poverty alleviation - will be a difficult task, requiring a broader debate on credible information."


How dare we try and help world hunger by growing foods that are in most senses better, but no one wants them because they're evil, evil foods cause they aren't natural


Quote
Finally, what are the prospects for global migration? The report says that global inequality, combined with demographic trends, will create ever more pressure for migration. "Dealing with this pressure is a challenge worldwide."


People are tired of their crap nations and want to move, big shock, maybe if the problems above were solved, this wouldn't happen.

Quote
The report concludes that the planet will face predictable challenges which will increase in intensity over the coming decades.


I could have told you that


Quote
If the Bank is right, the most precious resource of all over the next half century could be time.


We have all the time in the world, if it takes 100 years, it takes a hundred years, if you mean "before we blow the place up" well that's all we need are more developed countries that want to flex their political might.



Quote
Above all else, that is why I dislike America.



Because we were successful and they aren't? You can be sure we're giving a lot

Quote
Now, given that we're all going to be living with this problem for the next 50 years, I'd like to know what you think. :)


I don't think you wanna know what I think
« Last Edit: August 22, 2002, 06:39:53 pm by 338 »

 

Offline Kamikaze

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OT - We're Killing The World
I think this chaos should continue and wipe out the human race.. and then it'll be all nice and clean and fresh :nod:
Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceding generation . . .Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. - Richard Feynman

 

Offline CP5670

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OT - We're Killing The World
I agree with most of BL's stuff there. Also, we may be wiping out the so-called "natural" resources of the planet, but I doubt we will be so reliant on them for very long.

 

Offline Sandwich

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OT - We're Killing The World
As an aside, did anyone notice that the title of this topic is (purposefully or not, I do not know...) a near-direct quote from Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within? :D
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

  

Offline Shrike

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OT - We're Killing The World
Take that Mother Nature!

:lol:
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Mr. Vega

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OT - We're Killing The World
Quote
Telling consumers in the west that they have to cut back is not relished by politicians.


Congress sucks. Bush sucks. My Government sucks.

Sorry, had to get that out of my system.

I'm beginning to partly understand why the Middle East hates us so much.
Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking.
-John Maynard Keynes

 

Offline CP5670

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OT - We're Killing The World
So let's hate them in return. :D

 

Offline YodaSean

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OT - We're Killing The World
A good percentage of us already does, I think :p

 

Offline Anaz

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OT - We're Killing The World
lol...but we're not crashing things into their huts, now are we?
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Offline Bobboau

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OT - We're Killing The World
unless there is some sort of population controle we will never have enough food
starvation I guess is a good fall back, would cull from the weakest amung us, but I would rather have something a little less unpleasent,
we can't do manditory population controle like China, that just isn't right, but it is a little better than mass starvation,
if just the developed contries do it then we'll go extinct before too long (out produced by the poorer nations where large families are a priority),
nope, it looks like there is no happy way out of this
well that's what nukes are for

now I would like to know why everyone is so afraid of geneticly modified food
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Offline Kamikaze

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OT - We're Killing The World
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
now I would like to know why everyone is so afraid of geneticly modified food


considering that many humans' minds are devoted to religious organizations and various deities....
Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceding generation . . .Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. - Richard Feynman

 

Offline Anaz

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OT - We're Killing The World
their afraid that it might have adverse side affects, you know like when they said that DDT was harmless?
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Offline Bobboau

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OT - We're Killing The World
OK what sounds more likely to cause harmfull side effects,

induceing random mutations with radiation
altering a specific gene to make a specific change

useing toxic poisons to kill insects like DDT
adding a gene from a insectisidal bacteria that atacks insects at there base (i.e. non-alciline) digestive system (meaning as long as you use acid to digest you're food you'll be fine)

breeding a poison out of something
cutting it out geneticaly
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Offline Anaz

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OT - We're Killing The World
I know, it makes no sense that people are afraid of it. I'm all for it, a plant that defends itself from bugs, makes better tasting produce, and more of it sounds perfectly ok to me...
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Offline Carl

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OT - We're Killing The World
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
I agree with most of BL's stuff there.
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OT - We're Killing The World
Quote
Originally posted by Blue Lion
What's to encourage them to do anything if we keep giving them money?


Have you seen what happened to Argentina???

The IMF, which is controlled by the usa government, dissaproved a loan that would help them. In one night, their economy crashes. Then, the american governement comes and give them the money. Of course, now the country is obligated to the americans.

Quote
Originally posted by Analazon
I know, it makes no sense that people are afraid of it. I'm all for it, a plant that defends itself from bugs, makes better tasting produce, and more of it sounds perfectly ok to me...


And what if it starts defending itself from us? There is a tree in Africa that when a population of plant eating animals starts eating too much, it starts producing a poison, killing the animals. Imagine what would happen if a mutated plant, would develop mechanisms like that.
For after all what is man in nature? A nothing in relation to infinity, all in relation to nothing, a central point between nothing and all and infinitely far from understanding either.
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Offline Kellan

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OT - We're Killing The World
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
I agree with most of BL's stuff there. Also, we may be wiping out the so-called "natural" resources of the planet, but I doubt we will be so reliant on them for very long.


We can't destroy the natural world that we are currently so reliant on, on the promise that we'll have some kind of deus ex machina salvation. Besides, given the huge technological requirements of building our own biospheres or modifying our bodies to tolerate the new one, developing countries (and the poor in our own) would probably be left out. You'd be sacrificing billions of people, simply because you aren't prepared to change the way we live now.

Quote
nope, it looks like there is no happy way out of this
[/b]

:wtf: Are you crazy? :wtf: You really want to see some Hot Nuke Action™, don't you Bobb? I'm sure that there are many, many more ways that food could be managed and population culled (even something like Death Camps is less harmful to the environment). Besides, in asserting that there's never enough food you're missing 2 things: firstly, that the Malthusian theory of geometric population growth vs. numeric crop yield growth was proved wrong 100 years ago - and second, that most Western countries have too much food. I mean, every time I go to work I see fat people, and when I was in America I actually saw a woman who was in a wheelchair because she was too fat to stand up. :blah:

Oh, and Sandwich - I didn't intend the title to be a FF quote - I never even saw the movie. :p

Blue Lion: without quoting your every word, I think you're wrong. So there.

If the countries that were overpopulated and starving to death simply did so because their countries were deserts, poor for growing crops and so on, we should still have a moral obligation (there's that word again, CP) to help them. Bush is a fairly devout Christian, and yet he walks by on the other side, right?

However, the West has to hold at least some of the blame for the impoverishment of the Third World. When settlers arrived two or three centuries ago, the Third World did not have the problems it did now. In order to get a large local workforce, and seemingly because the land could support it, settlers encouraged natives to have larger families. They also introduced Catholicism, a religion which forbids the use of contraceptive devices. On that note, Western devices like contraceptives are now frowned upon in many African nations because they are something that belongs to "white men".

Throughout the history of colonialism and through to the 21st Century, the settler nations (and America, Japan, etc etc) exploited the Third World by producing goods there at far below the market wage - basically we've used the Third World to get cheap stuff, regardless of the consequences. We also sold them bad loans, knowing that they could not repay them. In effect, we have been taking the money necessary for development from the Third World for years - far more than the aid we have given.

Finally, we don't have time as an unlimited resource. Okay, the world isn't going to blow up or anything, but by doing nothing, more and more people slip below the line of absolute povery (living on less than $1 per day), more will starve and die, environmental damage in our own countries will worsen, with more flooding, smog, etc. I'd hope that at least you can agree that things can't go on as they are without some fairly serious effects.

Anyway - even if I don't agree with you, it gives me an idea of what I'm up against. ;)