Author Topic: The Return of Su-tehp  (Read 15164 times)

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Any similar tallies have been smaller, and supplementary in nature.  For example, in Scroll, Sesquipedalian decided that Antares, Beta Cygni, Ribos, Betelgeuse, and Ikeya were historically Vasudan systems that were occupied by Terrans during the later stages of the T-V War.  These were returned to Vasudan control following BETAC.

In short, you can basically write what you want - in the case above, you could argue that there is a "Antares Federation" for a considerable amount of time which is listed as a Terran state, and both Beta Cygni and Ribos had Arcadias in them.

 

Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 210
Has anyone done a tally of which star systems belonged to the Terrans and which to the Vasudans after I published this?

No, not to that degree.  That star system writeup has been accepted more or less as fanon.  It has proven to be very useful, and campaigns still use it to determine which fleet is based in which system.

Multiple campaigns have referred to it and people even today still find it useful? Well, damn. Glad I could do something for the Freespace community. It's always nice to feel needed. :D :cool: :nod: Not to mention that it's a nice ego boost for me. ;7 :drevil: I find it very gratifying that I left something behind that people found useful during my 17 year absence. :pimp:

Any similar tallies have been smaller, and supplementary in nature.  For example, in Scroll, Sesquipedalian decided that Antares, Beta Cygni, Ribos, Betelgeuse, and Ikeya were historically Vasudan systems that were occupied by Terrans during the later stages of the T-V War.  These were returned to Vasudan control following BETAC.

That makes sense in-universe in that returning those planets to the Vasudans would go a long way to cementing the alliance and friendship between the Terrans and Vasudans as well as alienating the Terrans who might have invested in making homes in those systems and felt disgruntled enough to join the NTF. I hereby tip my hat to Sesquipedalian as well as anyone else who used my system tally as a plot point. :yes: :nod: :yes:

In short, you can basically write what you want - in the case above, you could argue that there is a "Antares Federation" for a considerable amount of time which is listed as a Terran state, and both Beta Cygni and Ribos had Arcadias in them.

I think I recall from reading the FS2 Intelligence/History database that after the Great War, the GTA was dissolved and several Terran systems balkanized into a few independent system-states before all joining the GTVA and the Antares Federation was one of these states, right? As for Beta Cygni and Ribos having Arcadias in them, that would also seem to point to the idea that they were Terran-occupied systems as well if they were indeed Vasudan systems originally.

It's not about how many systems you control, but how much population and industry you have in these systems. As such it doesn't matter how many systems you have - in the end the Vasudans probably "won" in a way, their 5 systems survived, while the 24 Terran systems fell apart into blocks. In the end, resources don't matter much, a single system that uses a (still rather tiny) share of its resources (~0.1%) would be able to bury the Sathanas armada in a day.

Yeah, this is actually a plot point in DatDB (and I think at least implied or perhaps mentioned explicitly elsewhere in other campaigns) that having Earth cut off from the rest of Terran space cut off a significant chunk of the Terrans' economic might (ranging from up to 50% of the economic strength of the whole GTA to more than the rest of the GTA combined). That makes sense since Earth is both the most heavily developed and most heavily populated planet in all of Terran space. With Vasuda Prime, I think it's been lampshaded that Vasuda Prime, being a desert world, wouldn't have very many economic resources to support a starfaring society. (At least not without help, which is why there are fan theories that the Ancients might have surreptitiously uplifted the Vasudans. If so, that's a nice Pet The Dog moment for a bunch of genocidal, scary dogmatic aliens like the Ancients.) Then again, Vasuda Prime was heavily populated by several billion Vasudans, so Vasuda Prime's economic base certainly wasn't nothing....

Yes, the destruction of Vasuda Prime cost billions of Vasudan lives, but it apparently wasn't as economically devastating to the Vasudans as the Terrans losing Earth, especially since it's canon that Khonsu II made economic reforms (as well as political reforms, see the dissolution of the Vasudan Parliament) that allowed the Vasudans to recover faster than the Terrans, which also fueled the resentment of the "Lost Generation." It certainly makes sense that it's not the number of planets you have under your control, it's the resources and population you have on the planets you possess. A few rich planets are (at least) as valuable as a large number of poor planets. When I wrote my post above about how it might have been silly in hindsight to have the Terrans posess four times the number of planets than the Vasudans, I was assuming that parity of resources between the two nations during the T-V War meant having the same number of planets. As Nightmare said, that might not have been the case at all.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 11:37:28 pm by Su-tehp »
REPUBLICANO FACTIO DELENDA EST

Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign - Current Story Editor of the Exile campaign

"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
The Order of the Stick

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast

 
I think I recall from reading the FS2 Intelligence/History database that after the Great War, the GTA was dissolved and several Terran systems balkanized into a few independent system-states before all joining the GTVA and the Antares Federation was one of these states, right? As for Beta Cygni and Ribos having Arcadias in them, that would also seem to point to the idea that they were Terran-occupied systems as well if they were indeed Vasudan systems originally.

Actually the only link to these systems is through (Terran) Antares, also building an Arcadia is probably not that easy and certainly something more permanent than just occupying territory.

Quote
Yeah, this is actually a plot point in DatDB (and I think at least implied or perhaps mentioned explicitly elsewhere in other campaigns) that having Earth cut off from the rest of Terran space cut off a significant chunk of the Terrans' economic might (ranging from up to 50% of the economic strength of the whole GTA to more than the rest of the GTA combined). That makes sense since Earth is both the most heavily developed and most heavily populated planet in all of Terran space. With Vasuda Prime, I think it's been lampshaded that Vasuda Prime, being a desert world, wouldn't have very many economic resources to support a starfaring society. (At least not without help, which is why there are fan theories that the Ancients might have surreptitiously uplifted the Vasudans. If so, that's a nice Pet The Dog moment for a bunch of genocidal, scary dogmatic aliens like the Ancients.) Then again, Vasuda Prime was heavily populated by several billion Vasudans, so Vasuda Prime's economic base certainly wasn't nothing....

Yes, the destruction of Vasuda Prime cost billions of Vasudan lives, but it apparently wasn't as economically devastating to the Vasudans as the Terrans losing Earth, especially since it's canon that Khonsu II made economic reforms (as well as political reforms, see the dissolution of the Vasudan Parliament) that allowed the Vasudans to recover faster than the Terrans, which also fueled the resentment of the "Lost Generation."

My guess was that there was more industry in the Vasudan colonies too and being better developed overall. I think that most "economic miracles" have very solid reasons. Also, if you put a number of rather industrialized colonies next to a number of rather underdeveloped/only raw material extracting ones and have both trading with each other you can assume that there is some sort of imbalance in there.

 

Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 210
So I had a bit of a brainstorm today at work about the motives of the Shivans and Eidolons and wrote it down in my notes. I might actually have the glimmerings of a real plot for DatDB. (This is what a 17 year case of writer's block and/or neglect looks like:  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :hopping:)

And no, I'm not going to offer spoilers this early in the (proverbial) game). :P

But yeah, people, remember: "...years away." For all I can determine, DatDB might just be me talking out of my Argentine-American attorney ass (with added alliterative appeal). At least coming up with the story first makes for a decent hobby while I slowly try to learn how to mod Freespace.

Which reminds me: is there a PDF or some other downloadable document that can teach me the basics of Freespace modding?

EDIT: Never mind, I just stopped being lazy and found this. Time to go to work...well, not work work. I just got home from work.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 04:14:20 pm by Su-tehp »
REPUBLICANO FACTIO DELENDA EST

Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign - Current Story Editor of the Exile campaign

"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
The Order of the Stick

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast

 
Good luck with your project then! :yes:

 

Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 210
Good luck with your project then! :yes:

Thank you! :cool:

My main things in writing this story are to make the Eidolons as inscrutable as the Shivans and remember that the Shivans are "a symptom of a larger problem."

I really need to see how the Aesdherian capital ships look when they're reskinned black and dark blue, with blue beams. If anyone can reskin them and post screenshots of them, that would make my year. :nod: (Not to mention the fact that I'll also need a juggernaut equivalent as well.) :nervous:
REPUBLICANO FACTIO DELENDA EST

Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign - Current Story Editor of the Exile campaign

"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
The Order of the Stick

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast

 
I can hand you the complete collection of Aldos' Nightmares and their HTL versions if you want that. :)

 

Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 210
I can hand you the complete collection of Aldos' Nightmares and their HTL versions if you want that. :)

Let me think about that for a min-- HELL FOOKIN' YES!!!!!

How can you get them to me?
REPUBLICANO FACTIO DELENDA EST

Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign - Current Story Editor of the Exile campaign

"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
The Order of the Stick

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast

 
I just throw them on MediaFire~

 
 

Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 210
Here you go: http://www.mediafire.com/file/xreqqwp3q4no15y/Nightmares.7z/file

(should be complete)

Just downloaded it. I'll take a look at this. Good gawds, I vaguely remember that Aldos made these and that he named this species Nightmares. In fact, I think the Nightmares (or at least the idea of them when they were first announced) served as my first inspiration for DatDB and the Eidolons.
REPUBLICANO FACTIO DELENDA EST

Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign - Current Story Editor of the Exile campaign

"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
The Order of the Stick

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast

 
I can send you a copy of Reciprocitys design docs if you want to; I bet even Aldo doesn't have them anymore :D

 

Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 210
By all means. I can't say no to more resources of inspiration. :pimp:

Well, actually I can, but it would be counterproductive. :P
REPUBLICANO FACTIO DELENDA EST

Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign - Current Story Editor of the Exile campaign

"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
The Order of the Stick

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast

 
So I had a couple thoughts on this. First of all, DatDB sounds pretty cool to me in concept. 'Eidolons' is a good species name, too.

However -- and take this with a grain of salt, especially if others chime in to disagree -- I think 'Devil and the Deep Blue' is a little awkward-sounding as a title. If it were me, I'd extend it out a little: 'The Devil and the Deep Blue Sea'. That sounds much more natural, IMO.

But I have slightly odd title preferences, so.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker- you've probably heard me
    • My old squad sub-domain
It's a reference to the expression "devil and the deep blue sea"
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 
AFAIK the campaign was originally named "Between a Rock and a Hard Place".

 
It's a reference to the expression "devil and the deep blue sea"

"Between the devil and the deep blue sea." I'm aware of that, yes.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker- you've probably heard me
    • My old squad sub-domain
Good good. 👌
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 

Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 210
Yeah, my original working title was indeed "Between a Rock and a Hard Place" as everyone can see in the caption of the old node maps. I switched it to "Devil and the Deep Blue" when I contemplated what the Eidolon ships should look like and decided that a black-and-blue color scheme would contrast nicely with the black-and-red Shivan ships.

As for Kestrellius' comment about including the word "sea," he's right that it's purely subjective and a matter of personal preference. Truth be told, including the words "Between" and "sea" in the phrase "Between the devil and the deep blue sea" is the more common adage (AFAIK, anyway), but I do recall seeing the phrasing without the word "sea" in, of all places, in the novelization of the 1978 version of the Battlestar Galactica pilot (y'know, the version where Baltar actually gets executed by the Cylons after betraying the Colonies). As I recall, Adama used that particular phrasing when discussing with Tigh the fleet's need to get away from the Cylons and their insectoid allies, the Orilons, during the climax of the pilot episode. So yeah, it's a preferential thing. :nod: Also, I noticed that most Freespace mods (and I think most video games) don't have very verbose titles, so I didn't want to go with the whole eight word title of "Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea." That's just way too wordy for me for this project.  :D

As for coming up with the name Eidolons, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I wanted a word that would sounds benign at first but would seem more ambiguous upon reflection. Especially when you consider that the word has the exact two meanings I wanted to convey, it seemed perfectly apropos. :pimp:
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 12:06:28 am by Su-tehp »
REPUBLICANO FACTIO DELENDA EST

Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign - Current Story Editor of the Exile campaign

"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
The Order of the Stick

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast

 

Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 210
Had another brainstorm today on the DatDB plot, with inspiration while re-reading The Lost Fleet. I think I might actually have a coherent story after all. :drevil:

EDIT: Just found this old thing and I'm wondering about it today: Are cruisers obsolete in the post-Capella period now that corvettes have been deployed and canonically mentioned in the Deimos' techroom description to be the new foundation of the GTVA fleet?

And if cruisers aren't obsolete, what are some cool-looking cruiser mods out there? ;7
REPUBLICANO FACTIO DELENDA EST

Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign - Current Story Editor of the Exile campaign

"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
The Order of the Stick

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast