Author Topic: Coronavirus Outbreak  (Read 34828 times)

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Offline Mobius

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Yeah I'm in touch with my relatives in New York and Florida, and we keep each other up to date. This is totally out of control, unfortunately.
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Offline mjn.mixael

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It's no longer the "China Virus" as Trump so racistly puts it. It's the America Virus.
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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But he's so on the ball  :nod:

 
 
Still watching my country and state of Florida with horror. Some highlights:


  • The politicization of masks. GOP leaders, e.g. Pence and McConnell, finally started encouraging mask use (though not necessarily mask mandates) two weeks ago. Trump wore a mask in public for the first time last week. Governor Abbott of Texas, after resisting a statewide mask mandate for months - even issuing an executive order that prevented local authorities from enforcing mask use - finally changed his mind. The other two U.S. epicenters, Arizona and Florida, still have no statewide mask mandates.
  • The White House pressuring the CDC to change its guidelines for reopening schools. Trump said that the guidelines were "tough", "expensive", and "very impractical", and retweeted a claim that the CDC was lying about the virus. Pence said "we just don't want the guidance to be too tough", and "we don't want CDC guidance to be a reason why people don't reopen their schools".
  • The White House instructing hospitals to stop sending data to the CDC, and instead send the data to a central database in Washington.
  • Refrigerated trucks being requested in Texas and Arizona.
  • Politicians flat-out lying - or being incredibly ignorant - to assure the public that everything is fine. The lieutenant governor of Texas dismissed Fauci's advice, saying that Fauci had "been wrong every time on every issue". Senator Cornyn of Texas claimed last week that no one under the age of 20 had died from the virus. (!!!)
  • Disney World reopening four days ago, when Florida's cases were already exploding. The mayor of Orange County supported the reopening, calling it "a wonderful experiment to figure out if we can reopen business and reopen our theme parks and do so in a safe manner".
  • The ever-changing reassurances of Florida's governor, DeSantis. "Mainly young people are getting it." (The median age has since increased by about ten years.) "We're only seeing more cases because of greater testing." (No.) "Okay, it's not because of greater testing, but hospitalizations haven't increased." (Hospitalizations have since increased.) "Okay, hospitalizations are increasing, but deaths haven't increased." (Deaths have since increased.) "Our percent positive has stabilized." (No.) "I don't see a link between Florida's reopening and its increase in cases." (!!!)
  • DeSantis dismissing New York's offer of help. Last week, Cuomo made an open-ended offer to Florida, Arizona, and Texas: "equipment, staff, knowledge, ventilators, National Guard assistance, technical assistance, whatever they need". In response to a reporter's inquiry, DeSantis said "they're not helping us" and "we don't necessarily need help", then started talking about New York's nursing homes. New York sent Florida some Remdesivir anyway.

To alleviate the GOP-bashing, let me remark that some Republican governors seem to have handled the crisis well, e.g. Charlie Baker, Mike DeWine, Larry Hogan, Phil Scott, and Chris Sununu.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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I have to say that Cuomo's recent "victory lap" just reads as completely disgusting to me. This guy is a complete psychopath.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Sure.. New York has done far more than "flattening the curve".. they're down to sub 1000 cases a day. But hey let's complain about Cuomo instead of an asshat like DeSantis, Abbot, or maybe even the dickhead in the White House who is now trying to hide the Covid numbers in the US probably because it hurts his re-election campaign.

EDIT: For those that haven't seen it. The White house has ordered hospitals to send Covid related data directly to them and specifically not to the CDC.
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Offline Luis Dias

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Yeah good for them, but why would you congratulate yourself for having managed to **** up so badly you got, by *far*, the highest number of infections and deaths of any other state, in the first place?

Shouldn't you have some humbleness? "The US will be talkin about what NY did for decades". Jesus Christ, what the **** is wrong with american politicians.
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/07/14/jake-tapper-gov-andrew-cuomo-covid-19-poster-gupta-lead-sot-vpx.cnn

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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New York has gone from being the place with the most cases per day to having the pandemic in a place that's manageable by hospitals. They took it seriously despite everything Trump did to stop them from doing that. BUT RAWR THEY CAN'T HAVE HOPE. THE VIRUS CAN COME BACK RAWR. BAD NEW YORK RAWR.

Nah let's not talk about all the things they did right and apply it elsewhere or all the things Florida is doing wrong. Let's get mad that Cuomo is happy things have gotten better in his state.
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Offline Luis Dias

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jfc, I was talking about Cuomo, not new yorkers, jeeesus. I have all the solidarity I can even dream of with new yorkers, it's true, they did impressive things.

But why did they have to do these impressive things? Because a terrible federal government didn't take precautions. TRUE. Trump is the worst thing to happen to the US since 9 11, TRUE. But, Cuomo is ALSO guilty. He was ALSO incompetent. Why is he making all this victory lap on the backs of so much blood that could have been avoided?

Jeesh, yes, there are a lot of terrible politicians in the US right now. I'm SORRY if I didn't make a proper list of EVERY BAD PERSON on the US before I had the GALL of naming Cuomo as being an asshole.

 
NY was going to get hit hardest no matter what. Cuomo was managing a desperate situation very early on, when information was scarce, so I cut him some slack.

That doesn't change the fact that his handling of nursing homes was one of the deadliest mistakes in the outbreak. I'm also not sure how much of NY's improvement is due to Cuomo's leadership, and how much is due to the fact that so many people in NY have already been exposed.

 

Offline karajorma

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EDIT: For those that haven't seen it. The White house has ordered hospitals to send Covid related data directly to them and specifically not to the CDC.

Remember all the complaints that China was covering up their true figures? Remember when I said this

I've been saying for years that it's actually quite astonishing how similar the US and China are in the end.
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I'm much more salty about China's cover-up, because it meant that the rest of the world didn't recognize the danger. (Before Italy, even Fauci was saying that Americans shouldn't be worried.) Yeah, an earlier warning probably wouldn't have saved the U.S., but China's cover-up certainly had dire consequences for other countries.

Also, Georgia's governor just voided local mask mandates. Trump visited Atlanta, Georgia yesterday, and was criticized for not following Atlanta's mask mandate. I wonder if that's relevant.

 

Offline karajorma

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There was plenty of warning even before Italy. South Korea, Japan, Vietnam, etc all had access to the same data the West did and their response was drastically different. And the effects of the virus on those countries was also drastically different.

As for the cover-up. It's China. They're going to cover things up. Everyone should have expected that. I'm yet to see a single iota of evidence that China covered up things on a scale that would have made the "rest of the world" do anything drastically different. Let me ask you a question, what death toll and number of cases do you honestly think would have made Italy do something different?
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Offline mjn.mixael

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EDIT: For those that haven't seen it. The White house has ordered hospitals to send Covid related data directly to them and specifically not to the CDC.

Remember all the complaints that China was covering up their true figures? Remember when I said this

I've been saying for years that it's actually quite astonishing how similar the US and China are in the end.

Those wHaT aBoUt ChInA posts did not age well, did they?
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There was plenty of warning even before Italy. South Korea, Japan, Vietnam, etc all had access to the same data the West did and their response was drastically different.

If even Fauci said that Americans shouldn't be worried, then I can't blame any country for being complacent - before Italy, that is. After Italy, the scientific community changed its tune.

I'm yet to see a single iota of evidence that China covered up things on a scale that would have made the "rest of the world" do anything drastically different.

There isn't any hard evidence that China is harvesting organs, either, and people have been digging for years.

Let me ask you a question, what death toll and number of cases do you honestly think would have made Italy do something different?

I guess we'll never know, will we?

 

Offline The E

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I'm yet to see a single iota of evidence that China covered up things on a scale that would have made the "rest of the world" do anything drastically different.

There isn't any hard evidence that China is harvesting organs, either, and people have been digging for years.

Wha....?

what even is this point you're trying to make?

We can say, with near absolute certainty, that even if the chinese government had the full, accurate profile of COVID 19 in early December and even if they had sounded the alarm at that point, that this whole pandemic would have played out pretty much as it did. Why? Because the only reason why we in the west started to take it seriously was because Italy showed us what could happen if it were to go wrong. We are, provably, too racist (by which I mean: too dismissive of things coming out of China) to act as the koreans did and do a hard shutdown as early as they did.

The chinese government, again provably, did do the right things. They could probably have done those things sooner, just as every country in the world will always have to question how things would have worked out if they had started their shutdown a week or two weeks earlier.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 01:50:55 pm by The E »
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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The chinese government, again provably, did do the right things. They could probably have done those things sooner, just as every country in the world will always have to question how things would have worked out if they had started their shutdown a week or two weeks earlier.


 
My workplace has had its first confirmed COVID case.

 

Offline karajorma

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There isn't any hard evidence that China is harvesting organs, either, and people have been digging for years.

Which given the amount of counter-evidence might make a rational person question whether it is, in fact, happening at all, let alone in the ridiculous quantities some people claim. Maybe it is happening, maybe not. But the point I was making which you ignored is not whether China covered up or not but whether that cover up which you are so quick to lambast China for caused a difference in the response from the rest of the world.

Quote
Let me ask you a question, what death toll and number of cases do you honestly think would have made Italy do something different?

I guess we'll never know, will we?

I noticed that you completely failed to answer the important question. Your argument is literally

"China covered up and that caused Coronavirus to be bad!"
"What proof do you have that they covered up anything significant or that if they hadn't covered up the rest of the world would have done something differently?"
"I have no proof and there can't be any!"

How can you possibly defend your first statement without being able to explain why you think things would have been different?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 07:58:59 am by karajorma »
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