Author Topic: Coronavirus Outbreak  (Read 42368 times)

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Offline karajorma

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While it is a good idea to avoid the spread of lies and misinformation, this is not how it should be done jr2.

 I mean, it's not even like you've pointed out anything I didn't know. You're debunking claims no one on this thread has made. Who cares if the problem with the test kits was due to a manufacturing problem or not? A delay in testing is a still a delay. It's still going to cost lives. Why are you glossing over the fact that the German protocol for testing was released long before the American one? That even without the manufacturing error you are pointing out the US would still have been behind. Why are you ignoring that even once the manufacturing defect was cured that there still is a lack of testing going on in the USA? Why are you posting that the claim that Trump fired the pandemic team is debunked but ignoring the fact that many of them resigned and then Trump failed to hire new people to replace them? No pandemic team is no pandemic team. Why have you quoted that CDC funding was increased, but not quoted why!

Quote
It’s not accurate to say that Trump has been "defunding" the CDC, but he has tried to make cuts in key programs. It’s just that Congress didn’t listen.

The Trump administration’s initial proposals for the budgets for emerging and zoonotic infectious diseases at CDC — a key player in the fight against coronavirus — have consistently been lower than what was spent the previous year. The administration proposed $61.7 million less in 2018 than 2017; $96.4 million less in 2019 than in 2018; $114.4 million less in 2020 than in 2019; and $85.3 million less in 2021 than 2020.

However, Congress reshapes presidential recommendations as they see fit when they craft final spending bills. Every year since Trump has been president, lawmakers have passed bills — bills signed by Trump — that not only exceeded what Trump requested on emerging infections but also exceeded what had been spent the previous year.

Why is your own grade for this debunking you've taken upon yourself to do also


Please explain why you are engaging in exactly the sort of flim-flam and half truths you are calling other people out for.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2020, 08:20:24 am by karajorma »
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Offline jr2

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Right.  So it doesn't matter if the OPPOSITE is in fact true, the mere fact that someone ATTEMPTED to reduce funding means that, IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT FUNDING WAS INCREASED, this has caused problems.

You can criticize the attempt.  You can say "see, this is why it would have been terrible to cut funding".  But you can't blame the spread of a pandemic on something that never happened (budget cuts).  Politifact can squeak about "half true" all they want: the underlying premise of blame is invalid.

So yeah, I think I'll stand by my original point.

EDIT: In fact, if one would insist on placing blame on Trump for attempting to cut funding, then one would, by that very logic, be forced to CREDIT Trump for increasing funding, as he was the one that signed the eventual increases into law!
« Last Edit: March 19, 2020, 10:22:37 am by jr2 »

  
jr2, you're going to continue to make a fool of yourself if you don't read the things you are either quoting or responding to.

 

Offline jr2

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jr2, you're going to continue to make a fool of yourself if you don't read the things you are either quoting or responding to.

Except for the part where I never claimed anyone IN THIS THREAD had made those claims.  It's a catch all debunk on the general topic.  I suppose I could have made that a little more clear.

 
So you're just here to scream into the void and then get mad at people who reply?

Good luck with that.

 
You folks stay classy in here, and give Maddow my regards.  :yes:

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Offline karajorma

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If you're not actually talking to anyone on this thread jr2, maybe you shouldn't be quoting people in your post?

But as I pointed out in my previous post, even if you are just standing up for the truth, even if you just think that the truth is super important and everyone needs to know the truth so you have to shout it out onto a thread that never asked you to do so, why are you being so selective about which truths you stand up for?

Why are you misrepresenting the truth in order to argue that the truth is important and shouldn't be misrepresented?
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Apparently the management of the factory I work at is debating whether or not to shut down due to COVID-19.

I'm not entirely sure what the fulcrum of the debate is.  The assembly plants that we supply parts to are all shutting down.  All of the suppliers that send us raw materials are shutting down.  Even if we're an island of good health, we won't have any material to run or anywhere to send it.

What I am entirely sure about is that cramming 300+ people at a time into one room to make the announcement is probably not the best idea.  You know, on account of the contagious disease and such.

 

Offline jr2

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If you're not actually talking to anyone on this thread jr2, maybe you shouldn't be quoting people in your post?

But as I pointed out in my previous post, even if you are just standing up for the truth, even if you just think that the truth is super important and everyone needs to know the truth so you have to shout it out onto a thread that never asked you to do so, why are you being so selective about which truths you stand up for?

Why are you misrepresenting the truth in order to argue that the truth is important and shouldn't be misrepresented?

*sigh*

The U.S. is, under this current administration, failing miserably even by the standard of countries like Iran. We have no idea how many people are infected because we literally don't have the same kind of test the rest of the world is using.

Yes, we are totes doing worse than Iran.  This ^^ line of reasoning is based on faulty accusations like the ones I posted about.


EDIT:

Apparently the management of the factory I work at is debating whether or not to shut down due to COVID-19.

I'm not entirely sure what the fulcrum of the debate is.  The assembly plants that we supply parts to are all shutting down.  All of the suppliers that send us raw materials are shutting down.  Even if we're an island of good health, we won't have any material to run or anywhere to send it.

What I am entirely sure about is that cramming 300+ people at a time into one room to make the announcement is probably not the best idea.  You know, on account of the contagious disease and such.

They have a ban on having more than 50 people in the same building here or something like that, as management at my factory was saying they'd have to do some interesting things if they lowered that number (we have two buildings, one is usually staffed by 2-5 people, so we could balance the load and have customer service work from home if that number drops to 25).

 

Offline The E

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*sigh*

That is not a response. Address kara's points.
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Offline mjn.mixael

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I uh.. what. There's next to no testing happening in the US. What's the faulty reasoning?

There's even confirmed news (truth) that the CDC was telling private companies in Washington to stop doing private testing early on. Those companies did it anyway and found a huge number of cases. Hence why we know Seattle is a hotspot. Trump announced that we'd have drive through testing available across the US in parking lots like Walmart, Walgreens, CVS, etc early this week. That has not happened. Hello! It's Thursday!

My wife is a nurse at a hospital here in KC. They were told to expect to be doing parking lot testing by Tuesday. They still haven't gotten the supplies they need to make that happen. So what's the faulty reasoning about the US doing a horrible job? Seems pretty accurate to me.
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Apparently the management of the factory I work at is debating whether or not to shut down due to COVID-19.

I'm not entirely sure what the fulcrum of the debate is.  The assembly plants that we supply parts to are all shutting down.  All of the suppliers that send us raw materials are shutting down.  Even if we're an island of good health, we won't have any material to run or anywhere to send it.

What I am entirely sure about is that cramming 300+ people at a time into one room to make the announcement is probably not the best idea.  You know, on account of the contagious disease and such.

but if all of you die they can hire a new work force at lower rates

 
but if all of you die they can hire a new work force at lower rates

Sounds about right.

The regular monthly employee meetings are usually the management *****ing about rising labor costs and how we all need to work harder to keep putting money in the investors' pockets, followed by the "employee advocate" reminding us all what a terrible idea it would be to unionize.  They dress it up in flowery corporate-speak, but that somehow just makes it all the more demoralizing.

 

Offline The E

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Personally, we got ordered to work from home starting today until at least April.




Finally, my long training as a borderline recluse is paying off!
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Personally, we got ordered to work from home starting today until at least April.




Finally, my long training as a borderline recluse is paying off!

Same!
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Offline theperfectdrugsk

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Trying to blame Trump for the ****ty US response aside, I think it's fair to say that the rise of populism/nationalism and a general "go-it-alone, my-country-first" attitude worldwide has probably hampered the response. Rose-colored hindsight being 20/20 (god i love butchering these), it seemed like there was a much more cohesive worldwide effort with ebola, H1N1, etc.

Finally, my long training as a borderline recluse is paying off!

I expect to see a lot of "in-progress" mods and campaigns released before this is all through *runs away* :P


 

Offline mjn.mixael

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As if on cue...

Before Virus Outbreak, a Cascade of Warnings Went Unheeded

Apparently branches of the government have been trying to prepare for this for at least 4-5 years. Specifically they did a simulation last year that almost perfectly matches the current outbreak and Trump still proposed cutting the CDC budget again. Most, if not all, warnings have gone unheeded for years.
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Offline jr2

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As if on cue...

Before Virus Outbreak, a Cascade of Warnings Went Unheeded

Apparently branches of the government have been trying to prepare for this for at least 4-5 years. Specifically they did a simulation last year that almost perfectly matches the current outbreak and Trump still proposed cutting the CDC budget again. Most, if not all, warnings have gone unheeded for years.

But the CDC budget was increased, and signed off on by Trump (although I get you're at least stating that he only proposed it, you also have to consider how bargaining works: you propose massive cuts, they propose massive increases, you meet in the middle).

While we're on that topic:

What timeline is this where we are looking to China as an example of how to treat people? Lol.

The one where China's response, (once they got over the whole downplaying phase), was better organized and more effective than the american one.

Mmk, there's a difference between downplaying (what Trump was doing) and effing destroying evidence of the disease, and censoring those trying to blow the whistle for at least three weeks.

https://nypost.com/2020/02/29/china-officials-knew-of-coronavirus-in-december-ordered-cover-up-report-says/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chinese-scientists-destroyed-proof-of-virus-in-december-rz055qjnj

 
Arguing which country has the dumbest reaction isn't productive, isn't the whole reason we HAVE a government is to limit this kind of idiocy?
These governments don't need you to carry water for them, they were unprepared despite the warnings from their own agencies.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Stop being selective and answer the questions addressed to you.

Whataboutism toward China does not fix our government's complete unpreparedness to handle the pandemic.
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