Author Topic: Coronavirus Outbreak  (Read 28742 times)

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« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 05:46:55 am by -Joshua- »

 

Offline karajorma

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Meanwhile, the delivery of checks for the promised 1200 USD for every US citizens is delayed.... because Trump or one of his toadies decided that it was essential that his name be written on those checks.

Unfortunately that is too high a value cheque to send it back with "Eat **** Bob" written on it.
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Offline theperfectdrugsk

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I'm half expecting them to be those giant stupid sweepstakes checks, honestly.

 

Offline Kiloku

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<snip> Does Trump really need validation and recognition that much?</snip>

I know you said the question is rhetorical, but I don't think this is about validation. It's electoral campaigning. Imagine how many less-informed and/or undecided voters might decide to go vote for Trump when they see his name on a check they got "for free"? It's a bit psychological even, because it's directly associating his name with getting a check.
Potato!

 
That's actually pretty cunning. I wouldn't be surprised if it had that effect, sadly.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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A few weeks ago everyone in the states got little postcards that said "President Trump's coronavirus guidelines for America". I never saw anything in the news about it, but I thought... huh. Shouldn't this be the CDC's guidelines? Trump isn't a doctor. I'm sure he forced his name onto the postcard for the same reason. My wife threw it out or I'd take a picture and post it.
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Eh, this is exactly the same what our currently governing party did as one of their main campaign points. To bribe the people with their own money and make them think these funds magically appeared due to the genius of the party leaders.

Which worked flawlessly.





Of other things related to the US "helping" people not go bankrupt during these hard times, Louis Rossmann points out some major problems in the Paycheck Protection Program. Bureaucracy strikes again!
(This video is in a neutral, non-partisan spirit, pointing out actual problems within the bill. It's mostly informative and I think that knowledge could help some people to take a lesser financial hit and minimise the load on administrative systems - disclaimer for moderators!)
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Offline Kiloku

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Eh, this is exactly the same what our currently governing party did as one of their main campaign points. To bribe the people with their own money and make them think these funds magically appeared due to the genius of the party leaders.

Which worked flawlessly.
<snip>

I think it's a good plan to have the government pay people in this period of crisis (yeah, I know it's money they have thanks to taxes, but it's still a redistribution, as each person pays different amounts of taxes, and companies pay taxes as well). The problem here is associating it with Trump's name. It was not his idea, nor completely his decision. 
Here in Brazil a similar thing happened, where the President criticized the Emergency Citizen Fund bill, his supporters in Congress voted against it.   
But when it passed, the President and his supporters were acting like we should thank them, even though the bill was introduced by the opposition and passed with support from the center (we have 30~ish parties broadly grouped into government, center and opposition)
Potato!

 

Offline theperfectdrugsk

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A few weeks ago everyone in the states got little postcards that said "President Trump's coronavirus guidelines for America". I never saw anything in the news about it, but I thought... huh. Shouldn't this be the CDC's guidelines? Trump isn't a doctor. I'm sure he forced his name onto the postcard for the same reason. My wife threw it out or I'd take a picture and post it.
Huh. We never got one of those. But you're probably right about why his name is on it.

 

Offline DefCynodont119

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Unfortunately that is too high a value cheque to send it back with "Eat **** Bob" written on it.

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Offline Stealth

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Don't check in too often, and I never get involved in politics, but I've made a point of watching the news (both 'sides' of it) every evening while I try to exercise (so I don't leave this quarantine weighing 20 lbs more than when it started :) )
My thoughts (ramblings) on this entire situation:

- It (unfortunately) doesn't surprise me that Italy was hit as hard as it did.  Their entire culture is based around smoking, drinking, and associating in small cafes, older ones with younger ones.  That and the innate desire to buck the system, not listen to authorities, etc.  Horrible, as it's one of my absolute favorite countries, and a place I had (and still might) consider retiring someday.
- It is absolutely shocking how partisan this entire issue was from the beginning.  Left bashing the right, right bashing the left.  Both have good points at times, but this is the one time I (and i would think America as a whole) would want to see the politics put aside.  Who cares about the upcoming election.  Maybe that's just me.
- I think this is going to change, long-term if not permanently, every aspect of society, how we do business, how we interface and interact with others. 
- I also don't think it's possible (or feasible) to shut down a country for months.  I've heard some say "end of summer" - that just isn't possible.  After two weeks we saw what happened to the economy.  I have two aging parents I worry about too, so this isn't coming from a place of uncaring, but life doesn't work like that.  There's a point where the cost of the cure is more than the cost of the disease itself.  Poverty also kills.  I know we haven't seen statistics (and may never), but I would bet that during this quarantine, and rising exponentially during it, is suicides, self-harm, abuse, and other psychological impacts.  Cutting off someone from association with others for weeks and months at a time is not good.  And not everyone has access to high-speed internet, zoom, etc.
- $2 trillion comes from somewhere.  I don't think too many people have put much thought into just where it comes from.  It's not a savings account the government has that they just made a withdrawl from.  The effects of this stimulus program alone are going to have far-reaching ramifications.  Not necessarily a bad thing, and i'm not disagreeing with the approach, but yeah.

Cliffnotes: I'm following direction, but certainly ready for this to be over :)
Hope everyone is staying safe and well

  
Quote
- It is absolutely shocking how partisan this entire issue was from the beginning.  Left bashing the right, right bashing the left.  Both have good points at times, but this is the one time I (and i would think America as a whole) would want to see the politics put aside.  Who cares about the upcoming election.  Maybe that's just me.

I think it's noteworthy that this is not really about "the left bashing the right" and the "right bashing the left", it's that people are bashing the US federal government for not doing what other countries are doing. If you look at whose party is governing the states that have issued "stay-at-home" orders, you'll find that this is hardly a partisan issue. As an outsider, the unique amount of partisanry wrt the Trump administration doesn't shock me at all, it's a natural result of how out-of-place the Trump administration is acting compared to the rest of the world*. There's a massive difference in "not wanting to die from a virus" and "putting your name on congress's grants". Pointing out that the US response has been lacking compared to the rest of the world isn't partisan.

* The one exception here is Brazil, which political situation incidentally could also be described as "shockingly partisan"
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 10:29:57 am by -Joshua- »

 

Offline Kiloku

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<snip>

* The one exception here is Brazil, which political situation incidentally could also be described as "shockingly partisan"

Even here it's similar to what you described with the Governors in the US, actually. The governors of most Brazilian states are trying to follow the WHO's recommendations in general. Even the governors of Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo, who are decidedly right-wing and who both campaigned as allies of Bolsonaro have positioned themselves 100% against him on this.   
Potato!

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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There's a point where the cost of the cure is more than the cost of the disease itself.

This isn't actually true.  The choices currently are:
1.  Measures that are designed to prevent healthcare system collapse, but an economic collapse, or
2.  Healthcare collapse AND economic collapse.

There is no magic third option where we mitigate economic damage.  The economic damage comes with us either way.
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Online Su-tehp

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There's a point where the cost of the cure is more than the cost of the disease itself.

This isn't actually true.  The choices currently are:
1.  Measures that are designed to prevent healthcare system collapse, but an economic collapse, or
2.  Healthcare collapse AND economic collapse.

There is no magic third option where we mitigate economic damage.  The economic damage comes with us either way.

This. 1,000 times this. I find those Republican politicians saying that it's better to let older Covid victims die rather than allow social distancing to run the economy into the ground to be utterly sociopathic and stupid. I find them sociopathic because, duh, they want a bunch of people to die and I find them stupid because if tens of thousands of people die, then the economy is going to crater anyway just because so many people who had been contributing to the economy can't contribute anymore because they're frickin' dead. Just as MP-Ryan said, the economic damage from the coronavirus is locked in, no matter what we do. All that can be done now is to mitigate the damage as best we can. Republicans can either help Democrats do just that, or get out of the way. If they don't get out of the way, then they'll have to face angry voters in November.
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As 35 economists said last month, "saving lives and saving the economy are not in conflict right now".

 
Even here it's similar to what you described with the Governors in the US, actually. The governors of most Brazilian states are trying to follow the WHO's recommendations in general. Even the governors of Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo, who are decidedly right-wing and who both campaigned as allies of Bolsonaro have positioned themselves 100% against him on this.

Yeah I heard as much, and I appreciate the confirmation!

 

Offline Kiloku

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Whelp. The Brazilian Health Minister has been fired.

The President was angry that he was stealing his limelight, basically. Everyone was looking to the minister for what to do rather than the President, so that didn't sit right with the Dumbass-in-Chief. Besides, Bolsonaro's approval had long been in the mid to low 30%s, now it's in the low 20%s. While the minister's had risen to above 70%.   

If the state govts manage to handle the **** to come, fine, but the tiny amount of federal support from the Health Ministry was still better than nothing. The new Health Minister will certainly be a handpicked to be an ass-kisser for Bolsonaro.
Potato!

 
Whelp. The Brazilian Health Minister has been fired.

Surprising no one :(

Quote
tens of thousands of people die, then the economy is going to crater anyway just because so many people who had been contributing to the economy can't contribute anymore because they're frickin' dead

I mean, tens of thousands of people are dying in the US right now. And it's not just the dead who can't work towards 'the economy', it's the people who have to care for them, the people caring for those who are sick, the people who are sick and as such can't go to work without endangering others or well, are just too sick to go to work to begin with. If you can kill the virus after two months of not running your economy you're going to have a better functioning country in a years time then if you're fighting the virus throughout and essential services are suffering.

Plus, you know, losing your job isn't a disaster in the same way that permanent lung damage is. All these problems with unemployment can be solved, just not in ways that appeal to Republican politicians.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Whelp. The Brazilian Health Minister has been fired.

The President was angry that he was stealing his limelight, basically. Everyone was looking to the minister for what to do rather than the President, so that didn't sit right with the Dumbass-in-Chief. Besides, Bolsonaro's approval had long been in the mid to low 30%s, now it's in the low 20%s. While the minister's had risen to above 70%.   

If the state govts manage to handle the **** to come, fine, but the tiny amount of federal support from the Health Ministry was still better than nothing. The new Health Minister will certainly be a handpicked to be an ass-kisser for Bolsonaro.

Christ, he really is Trump South.