Author Topic: Coronavirus Outbreak  (Read 47925 times)

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That's depressing, though not all together unexpected. I know a bunch of people would argue that "they brought it on themselves", but nobody is immune to propaganda.

 

Offline Mika

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Haven't been here for ages, but a couple of things now that I spotted the thread:


Outdoors mask wearing without people around you is useless and mostly counter-productive. Particularly with low temperature areas where the moisture of your breath condenses on the mask. Don't do it, unless mandated by law.

The surgical masks themselves will NOT stop the transmission of virus if this thing is airborne. They'll mostly block spit, coughs and sneezes up to some degree. You'll still need to distance, and if you cannot, it mainly becomes a matter of time. If you really need to be in proximity of people indoors or in mass transit and want more protection, use N95/PPE2+ masks instead. Those at least will have a chance to stop aerosols. You are NOT supposed to wear N95 masks for extended periods of time, in hospitals they put additional oxygen in the air where they wear those things.

You should NOT go to the tests or be tested if you don't have some symptoms. The PCR-testing is not nearly good enough for - like most medical instruments aren't - screening asymptomatic people. The pre-test probability needs to be increased with some kind of symptoms for this to make sense. I don't get why companies would mandate that to their workers. The positive PCR-test has significantly higher predictive value in higher virus prevalence areas, starting around 5 %.

Testing asymptomatic people in low prevalence settings will actually generate false positives regardless of the specificity of the instrument. It's next to impossible to push the measurement system to the required specificity of 99.999 % that would be necessary. There are examples of measurement system generated epidemics, gonorrhea in UK for example. More here. Doing that is a judgment between additional diagnostic costs of finding false positives and savings made by finding them early. Most of the time it doesn't pay off, particularly with cancer. With corona, the cost is mostly about quarantining a number of people out from their work.

Otherwise, life is actually quite normal here, except it's me who has to socially distance for about a year. It's a combination of bad luck with colleagues having pregnant wives in the Spring, and due to hunting season in the Autumn. There are some elderly people in the group, so have to take care. I got some respite of that, for about three months during the summer where the virus was essentially extinguished from the country.

Generally, I think the public should understand that the PCR tests are not 100 % correct, and there are necessarily false positives leading to unnecessary quarantining of some people. Quarantining should be viewed more as a pre-caution for most of the people. Its only in the higher prevalence settings where the predictive value of the positive test will actually be quite reliable. If people don't get sick while in the quarantine, and you don't tell them this, they'll start to ignore the entire quarantining at some point.
Relaxed movement is always more effective than forced movement.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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The gonorrhoea thing was probably my ex...

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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There's very limited evidence Sars-Cov-2 is transmitted in small aerosols, and most of that comes from procedures such as ventilation where there is a pressured source distributing the tiny droplets that can hang in the air for a sufficient period to meet what's popularly referred to as 'airborne.'  There's ample evidence that any form of masking provides meaningful benefits when social distance cannot be properly maintained.  Careful providing advice that contradicts that.  N95 and high grades of particulate mask are better but predominantly in extreme close quarters and healthcare settings.  Both of those types can be worn without issue for extended periods up to a full shift (~12 hrs) without issue.

While I understand the nuance you're posting concerning PCR techniques, there is a substantial amount of "COVID isn't real" conspiracy bull**** floating around on social media due to public misconceptions about how PCR functions and these testing systems work, so I caution anyone following this to be very careful in researching it via reputable sources (medical and scientific journals).  PCR testing is safe, reliable, and accurate.  It is, however, an amplification method and therefore is capable of detecting viral load in people without symptoms or significant active infection.  There is always some level of false positive in any scientific test, and particularly in biology.  Modern PCR methods minimize this as much as possible.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline Dysko

I dont't know if you reached this level of craziness also abroad, but in Italy many people are starting to think that ambulances go around empty with sirens on just to scare people  :blah: This idiocy started this summer, when a conspiracy theorist interviewed 2 guys who falsely claimed to be 112 operators and that they were ordered to go around to scare people.
Today in Turin, two guys followed an ambulance and filmed themselves while attacking the crew  :mad:

In another episode, a flare rocket was found in the waiting room of Milan's biggest hospital to intimidate health workers.

This is seriously getting out of control.
My aircraft spotting website: GolfVictorSpotting.it

 
Man, **** conspiracy theorists.

 

Online Mobius

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This is the final blow to "the Age of Information, where Ignorance is a choice". There are people out there who deny all of this, yet how can we expect them to believe that things such as the Holocaust happened, and the Earth is not flat? This is without any doubt the darkest side of providing people with free internet.

By the way, I have to mention another worrying fact: someone thought it was a "good idea" to damage some 70 cars belonging to health workers which were parked right in front of the hospital where said doctors and nurses were working intensely to save human lives.

 

Offline karajorma

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That's the point at which you get a photo of them and change the dictionary definition of the word arsehole to that picture and an explanation of what they did.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Offline starlord

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As long as there isn’t an example made and they aren’t made accountable, this will continue.

Worse still, this kind of behaviour will be defended as freedom of personal opinions, which I am DEAD SET AGAINST. This is nothing short of people tripping on a power complex and playing domestic terrorist. They must be held accountable.

 

Offline The E

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Just one problem with all that.

If we agree that freedom of expression and freedom of opinion are things we wish to preserve and protect, we must accept that people will have opinions that are objectively wrong. There is no way to prevent that that does not also carry with it an enormous risk of creating mechanisms of extreme repression.

We can and certainly should put a greater deal of scrutiny on social media sites, but even there, the things we can do to ensure that misinformation does not spread must be severely limited because we dare not create a situation where a government commission determines what is and is not true.

Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 
This is the final blow to "the Age of Information, where Ignorance is a choice". There are people out there who deny all of this, yet how can we expect them to believe that things such as the Holocaust happened, and the Earth is not flat? This is without any doubt the darkest side of providing people with free internet.

I'd like to point to the entirety of anti-Semitism in Europe throughout a millennia or two to point out that you don't need the internet to make people believe insane, harmful bull**** or for them to act on it.

@The_E
Pretty sure Starlord is referring to the people attacking medical personnel, not every tinfoilhat out there.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 10:02:29 am by -Joshua- »

 

Online Mobius

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There are people out there who deny the existence of a global pandemic. "Ok", though the evidence against such idiotic claims is overwhelming.

Damaging the same cars health workers used to go to their hospital and save human lives is a completely different matter. It's a deliberate action meant to damage somebody else - in this case, doctors and nurses who are supposedly making up an entire pandemic to get something (???) in exchange. I can't speak for all countries, but at least here, people need an extra car insurance option to cover damage caused by vandalism, as it's not included in the basic insurance plan (my car, for example, is not covered by vandalism damage).

I see that someone volunteered to repair their cars for free, but if that didn't happen, those doctors and nurses without adequate insurance cover for vandalism would have had to pay for the repairs themselves. The lack of surveillance cameras in the area makes charging those responsible for this vile action nearly impossible.

 

Offline starlord

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I am indeed referring to the people attacking med personnel and destroying their hardware.

Your privileges stop dead when you assault or otherwise incapacitate relief efforts. If you do, then the world should know you for what you are: a domestic terrorist and potential murderer. And you should stand trial as one.

Everyone is of course at liberty to choose  their actions in life but people should not forget that some choices carry dire consequences from a societal and judicial standpoint, as it should be. Also, choosing how one’s health should be managed is fine and dandy but stops the moment your choices affect the health of others. Period!
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 10:54:50 am by starlord »

 

Offline Mongoose

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If they catch the mother****er, make them lick the entire ICU floor clean.

 
I sympathize with MitoPL not being able to breathe with his mask properly on (I’ve had my own breathed moisture inside my mask backflow into my throat and make me cough more than once) but since suffocation and leaving your nose exposed is too dangerous to other people, then MitoPL’s method of periodically pulling away the lower flap of his mask while not exposing his mouth is really the only option.
There's a correction to be made here: when physically active, I just need to have my nose uncovered - if I don't, in the simplest words, I overheat nearly instantly and my only alternative is to touch my mask every couple minutes (which is often not possible, I need my hands to be free often).

I'm using normal reusable cloth masks, and it feels to me like I breathe a bit better in them than in the "surgical" ones. Of course washed regularily. My problems might also have something to do with undefined and unmeasured lung issues I might or might not have attained over my childhood I guess? Eh, whatever.

Re: attacks on medical personel - this is just really beyond any commentary. Eugh.
Mito [PL] - Today at 8:52 PM
I was supposed to make a short presentation about basics of optical fibers and here I am, listening to Eurobeat while reading about quantum cryptography.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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I find the cloth masks making breathing more difficult when I'm exerting myself, so I use disposable surgical style masks at work - I find them a lot more breathable.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

  
 

Offline General Battuta

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Quote
Associated Press
High court blocks NY coronavirus limits on houses of worship
JESSICA GRESKO
Thu, November 26, 2020, 12:22 AM EST
WASHINGTON (AP) — As coronavirus cases surge again nationwide the Supreme Court late Wednesday barred New York from enforcing certain limits on attendance at churches and synagogues in areas designated as hard hit by the virus.

The justices split 5-4 with new Justice Amy Coney Barrett in the majority. It was the conservative’s first publicly discernible vote as a justice. The court’s three liberal justices and Chief Justice John Roberts dissented.

Lol we're* gonna die

*a bunch of churchgoing olds

 

Offline starlord

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This is complete insanity. You do NOT need a church to say mass.

 

Offline General Battuta

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It's free speech baby, can't take away are freedoms :cryingeagle911: