Author Topic: Some BWO discussion (formerly PS story)  (Read 3572 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Paradigm Shift storyline?
Slight chance after 20 years? ;) but i think best way would be try to get it done in two parts one part dealing the first half before **Beeeepp and the other part after you can *beeep* *beep*

No idea about the "chance".

Maybe try this?

Does any of you 2 have a list of potential available Fredders or asked around? Last news I heard on Discord (though from earlier this year) was that Battuta had no time, also he said "several".

 

Offline SF-Junky

  • 29
  • Bread can mold, what can you do?
Re: Paradigm Shift storyline?
I'm actually surprised people still believe something will ever come out of this project. To me it's pretty clear, honestly, that this will not be the case.

 
Re: Paradigm Shift storyline?
As long it's not declared that there's always a chance. TI was resting for 5 years on Black Wolfs HD before I started bugging him about it. When he no longer had the time to work on it himself he passed modlead to Admiral Nelson. I doubt there were many who expected it to ever release, still it got out this year. A number of extremely talented people (Battuta, JSRNerdo and Nyctaeus) volunteered to work on it, so the chance is there, atleast if they have time to do so, what might not be the case right now, but since it's a hobby you can take as much time as it takes.

Earlier in the thread it sounded like that the intention to make HTL versions of ships before release was finally thrown over board too, so what is left is the missions and possibly some touch-ups on the writing. Those got split into 3 or 4 episodes; and most of the missions, while not perfectly new are in some semi-complete state, what is easier than making a complete campaign from scratch. I'd volunteer to debug the modpack but that would require the current staff to devise a plan what is supposed to happen first.

 

Offline Nyctaeus

  • The Slavic Engineer
  • 212
  • I made the largest .POF in the universe.
    • Minecraft
    • Exile
Re: Paradigm Shift storyline?
Nothing will happen with BWO without will of actual team leaders. TI was floating in development inertia for several years with Black Wolf clearly stuck in typical "development hell". We've got pretty much complete, but not polished product but most importantly, BW was kind enough to provide us quite free hand at changing models, rebalancing missions, he provided us access with TI's FTP and... Basicly FSCRP could finish and release TI without any additional obstacles.

If I remember correctly, BWO is much worse shape then TI. Vanilla mission design, random crashes, lots of redundant missions etc. Years passed since I played it for the last time, but I doubt if anything changed. For me, FSCRP could pick it, but it means cutting redundant missions, model replacements [because some of BWO's models are stilll retail quality, while others are shiny HTLs] and possibly other changes... Which BWO leaders are not likely to let us do.

Personally I offered BWO my modelling/texturing services years ago. In the difference to some community members who had qurrels with BWO core members in the past, BWO team was always kind for me. So my offer stands valid, but I will work for people who do everything to make the project complete and released, instead of generating additional problems and dramas.
Exile | Shadow Genesis | Inferno | Series Resurrecta  | DA Profile | P3D Profile

Proud owner of NyctiShipyards. Remember - Nyx will fix it!

All of my assets including models, textures, skyboxes, effects may be used under standard CC BY-NC 4.0 license.

 

Offline Gloriano

  • silver dracon
  • 210
  • Machina terra
Re: Paradigm Shift storyline?
I'm actually surprised people still believe something will ever come out of this project. To me it's pretty clear, honestly, that this will not be the case.

Actually i agree with that, it's been way too long the only chance was about 10 years ago or so but then people wanted to feature creep add all new shiny ships etc. I think the best would been with retail quality ships etc because later you could have made the more complete if you wanted.. I can understand the team wanted it to be a really high quality that's what everyone wants for their product.

there is always two sides for everything
You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.- Nietzsche

When in despair I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won; there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall.- Mahatma Gandhi

 

Offline Nyctaeus

  • The Slavic Engineer
  • 212
  • I made the largest .POF in the universe.
    • Minecraft
    • Exile
Re: Paradigm Shift storyline?
Actually making full-HTL modpack is not far from being possible. There are plenty of cool-quality models in the community asset pool. BP is an example how to do it right: Their crucial assets [like TEI ships, or warships of UEF fleet] are mostly custom or heavily modified to suit their needs. Rest of their modpack was assembled by adaptation of public assets or assets from other mods. It is very efficient and in my opinion, preferred way to make large fleetpacks.

On the other hand, there is crazy "let's make whole HTL fleet from scratch" approach. Very few people accomplished something like that. Actually including myself with EA fleet for Inferno. Raven was on the right path, and he did magnificent job with majority of custom assets for BWO. Contrary to popular opinion, I don't think that assets are actually cause of BWO's downfall.

FRED was. BWO team apparently counted on magic or divine intervention for their missions to happen. With almost non-existing progress in FRED department, all asset creators quickly lost any interest. It always happens. Asset creators must feel that their hard work is not gonna be wasted. Otherwise we quickly lose motivation.
Exile | Shadow Genesis | Inferno | Series Resurrecta  | DA Profile | P3D Profile

Proud owner of NyctiShipyards. Remember - Nyx will fix it!

All of my assets including models, textures, skyboxes, effects may be used under standard CC BY-NC 4.0 license.

 

Offline Gloriano

  • silver dracon
  • 210
  • Machina terra
Re: Paradigm Shift storyline?
Actually making full-HTL modpack is not far from being possible. There are plenty of cool-quality models in the community asset pool. BP is an example how to do it right: Their crucial assets [like TEI ships, or warships of UEF fleet] are mostly custom or heavily modified to suit their needs. Rest of their modpack was assembled by adaptation of public assets or assets from other mods. It is very efficient and in my opinion, preferred way to make large fleetpacks.

On the other hand, there is crazy "let's make whole HTL fleet from scratch" approach. Very few people accomplished something like that. Actually including myself with EA fleet for Inferno. Raven was on the right path, and he did magnificent job with majority of custom assets for BWO. Contrary to popular opinion, I don't think that assets are actually cause of BWO's downfall.

FRED was. BWO team apparently counted on magic or divine intervention for their missions to happen. With almost non-existing progress in FRED department, all asset creators quickly lost any interest. It always happens. Asset creators must feel that their hard work is not gonna be wasted. Otherwise we quickly lose motivation.

I think if it was possible to use public assets for a project would be a best way to go and the fastest for a major project but of course there is thing. ''do they look the kind of assets that fits on certain fleet and have the feeling it would serve it's purpose'' a lot projects wanted their project have the unique feeling from others.

But like MT, BWO only had a whole new fleet of ships for Sol ships and some for GTVA so not that many assets compared to the like Inferno.

but like you said making the actual missions seems to be problem for a lot even if you managed to get the assets it seems to be biggest killer in some projects..
You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.- Nietzsche

When in despair I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won; there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall.- Mahatma Gandhi

 
Re: Paradigm Shift storyline?
From what I've seen of the Screens of Sol craft, some of the ED fighters could work well as replacements.

but like you said making the actual missions seems to be problem for a lot even if you managed to get the assets it seems to be biggest killer in some projects..

Well OTT had probably the biggest set of new ships from HLPs early "megaprojects", yet the shipset got finished and Venom didn't care about upgrading simply because he had put so much work into his ships, still it imploded because nobody wanted to make missions for him, so neither the 3-mission demo nor the 10 missions of act 1 got finished.

 

Offline Raven2001

  • Machina Terra Reborn
  • 211
  • Im not the droid your looking for, move along
Re: Paradigm Shift storyline?
In the difference to some community members who had qurrels with BWO core members in the past, BWO team was always kind for me.

I don't think we were unkind to anyone actually. We did respond harshly and decisively to some behaviors of others, but I still think our reaction was warranted, given the circumstances.

but I will work for people who do everything to make the project complete and released, instead of generating additional problems and dramas.

Out of curiosity, what additional problems and dramas do you perceive we generated while you were with us?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 11:20:56 am by Raven2001 »
Yeah, I know you were waiting for a very nice sig, in which I was quoting some very famous scientist or philosopher... guess what?!? I wont indulge you...

Why, you ask? What, do I look like a Shivan to you?!?


Raven is a god.

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Paradigm Shift storyline?
I think it would just take a couple of months of dedicated work by 1-2 fredders to have BWO ready for release.

 

Offline Nyctaeus

  • The Slavic Engineer
  • 212
  • I made the largest .POF in the universe.
    • Minecraft
    • Exile
Re: Some BWO discussion (formerly PS story)
Out of curiosity, what additional problems and dramas do you perceive we generated while you were with us?
Not my theatre, not my actors. There is nothing I was directly involved in, nor I am interested in dramas of other people. During general activity in the community, interacting with people etc. you can just encounter voices mentioning some issues. Voices I won't name, because people involved knows their cases. Each coin has two sides, so judging is certainly not in my competences and interest.

It's rather about something I remember from BtRL and Earth Defense. The scheme I remember. Dramas and negative gossip combined with long-term lack of progress. Clear signs that something bad is happening within development team. Eventually, none of those three projects published anything more, than short demo releases. And in case of both BWO, BtRL and ED, all of them ended up in complete collapse.
Exile | Shadow Genesis | Inferno | Series Resurrecta  | DA Profile | P3D Profile

Proud owner of NyctiShipyards. Remember - Nyx will fix it!

All of my assets including models, textures, skyboxes, effects may be used under standard CC BY-NC 4.0 license.

 
Re: Some BWO discussion (formerly PS story)
IMHO instead of discussing past drama I'd rather like to know if there're concrete plans to push BWO ahead. Pretty much everybody involved in it either abandoned HLP entirely or atleast doesn't care about BWO anymore, they will add literally nothing to BWOs future (if it's supposed to have any).

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Some BWO discussion (formerly PS story)
I recently played through (almost) all the missions and made a list of stuff that needs to be fixed/improved to get it release ready. It's not insuperable.

A lot of people have said "why doesn't BWO just release?" or actively tried to make it happen. I fully support the team's decision to not release yet. The campaign is not finished and never has been. But it wouldn't take too much work to get it to a good place.

 
Re: Some BWO discussion (formerly PS story)
The reason why people asked for "just releasing" is that there was a beta long ago, and because Goober said they were done. Also the dev team was focused solely on models so when the mission issue resurfaced it appeared as if they had just bumped the goalposts again.

BTW, are you planning to change some things about the writing of the campaign as well?

 

Offline starlord

  • 210
Re: Some BWO discussion (formerly PS story)
I’d love it if the Morgan technology and enigma arcs were somehow retained.

 

Offline Raven2001

  • Machina Terra Reborn
  • 211
  • Im not the droid your looking for, move along
Re: Some BWO discussion (formerly PS story)
Not my theatre, not my actors. There is nothing I was directly involved in, nor I am interested in dramas of other people. During general activity in the community, interacting with people etc. you can just encounter voices mentioning some issues. Voices I won't name, because people involved knows their cases. Each coin has two sides, so judging is certainly not in my competences and interest.

It's rather about something I remember from BtRL and Earth Defense. The scheme I remember. Dramas and negative gossip combined with long-term lack of progress. Clear signs that something bad is happening within development team. Eventually, none of those three projects published anything more, than short demo releases. And in case of both BWO, BtRL and ED, all of them ended up in complete collapse.

I misunderstood you, then. I thought you were saying that there was drama related to you.
But yeah I agree that the best is to leave it buried.

IMHO instead of discussing past drama I'd rather like to know if there're concrete plans to push BWO ahead. Pretty much everybody involved in it either abandoned HLP entirely or atleast doesn't care about BWO anymore, they will add literally nothing to BWOs future (if it's supposed to have any).

Concrete, not yet, no.
But your assumption that all of the people involved don't care about BWO anymore is not correct, because I do care.

I recently played through (almost) all the missions and made a list of stuff that needs to be fixed/improved to get it release ready.

I'd be interested in reading your notes :)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 11:49:39 am by Raven2001 »
Yeah, I know you were waiting for a very nice sig, in which I was quoting some very famous scientist or philosopher... guess what?!? I wont indulge you...

Why, you ask? What, do I look like a Shivan to you?!?


Raven is a god.

 
Re: Some BWO discussion (formerly PS story)
IMHO instead of discussing past drama I'd rather like to know if there're concrete plans to push BWO ahead. Pretty much everybody involved in it either abandoned HLP entirely or atleast doesn't care about BWO anymore, they will add literally nothing to BWOs future (if it's supposed to have any).
But your assumption that all of the people involved don't care about BWO anymore is not correct, because I do care.


I could've worded that better, what I wanted to express is that it does not make sense to discuss the past (again); sure you and BD were involved in that too but the others who were are simply not here anymore, so the gain from another discussion who did what will be pointless.

 

Offline Gloriano

  • silver dracon
  • 210
  • Machina terra
Re: Some BWO discussion (formerly PS story)
I’d love it if the Morgan technology and enigma arcs were somehow retained.

Don't expect too much from those a bit maybe related to delphi system as there are certain things happening (they could have changed a lot trough so maybe i got old info that got changed)
You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.- Nietzsche

When in despair I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won; there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall.- Mahatma Gandhi

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Some BWO discussion (formerly PS story)
I'd be interested in reading your notes :)

I posted them all on internal.

 

Offline Raven2001

  • Machina Terra Reborn
  • 211
  • Im not the droid your looking for, move along
Re: Some BWO discussion (formerly PS story)
I'd be interested in reading your notes :)

I posted them all on internal.

Indeed, you did. And I replied, and you replied... Old age is getting to me I guess :P
Yeah, I know you were waiting for a very nice sig, in which I was quoting some very famous scientist or philosopher... guess what?!? I wont indulge you...

Why, you ask? What, do I look like a Shivan to you?!?


Raven is a god.