[Top Gun]

Originally posted by Razor


I absolutely agree with Top Gun. Bush was never supposed to be elected as president in US. Just tell me what did he ever do right during his mandate. He just fights wars, brainstorms about attacking Iraq and other countries just because he thinks that they are involved in the events of 11.9. I mean, anyone with an electron size brain could have thought of that.
I also heard one more thing about him. Wasn't he some kind of "executioner" in texas? ( Since texas is known for giving people death sentences)

Actually speaking he deserves credit in the intelligence department for realizing that unless he keeps the US at war, the public will remember that he's a moron (although he probably doesn't make his own policy any more than his own speeches).


As for the executioner bit: You really should do some research before commenting, it adds a whole lot more weight to your argument.


He was Governor of Texas (the state that executes the most people). While governor he notoriously rejected appeals from numerous people on death row. Including those with mental ages of less than ten. Not even the Arabs of Chinese do that!

[Warlock]

Originally posted by Top Gun



Actually speaking he deserves credit in the intelligence department for realizing that unless he keeps the US at war, the public will remember that he's a moron (although he probably doesn't make his own policy any more than his own speeches).


As for the executioner bit: You really should do some research before commenting, it adds a whole lot more weight to your argument.


He was Governor of Texas (the state that executes the most people). While governor he notoriously rejected appeals from numerous people on death row. Including those with mental ages of less than ten. Not even the Arabs of Chinese do that!

Works for me ...I'd rather a killer get what they should than be supportted by MY tax money.

Do some counter reseach ... MOST prisons are better living conditions than of hotels for christ's sake.

I don't recall the figures and I'm too busy to look them up ...but when Tim Mcfay got juiced ,... I heard a report state that it was like **estimated guess here not exact** a thousand or so for everything needed for the lethal injection,.....yet at his age in the mid twenties...average lifespan being set at 75 ...they estimated 1-2 million to pay for his life sentence in prison.


I have NO problem with killing a killer.

[CP5670]

Regarding the racism, I agree that there is some of that around here, but it doesn't seem to be all that much more than in most other countries. I personally have not experienced any discrimination in my life due to that (my parents are from India and I am of hindu ethnicity), but I have heard about such incidents elsewhere. These various types of affirmative action are indeed quite stupid though; it is just another kind of racism. (e.g. universities should not admit x males, y whites, etc. but rather x people, based on intellectual merit)

The main thing I don't like about the US is the corporations; these stupid conglomerates are simply way too powerful and are able to easily bribe government officials due to their large sums of money. I stand by my contention that lobbying through money should be completely banned.

I don't really know what Bush did as governor, but it is good if he was brutal on these criminals; if anything, we need to be more ruthless. I think that the main reason the US has the highest crime rates in the world (in addition to the rubbish culture) is the very lax punishments; as Warlock said, the prison facilities are quite luxurious and sometimes poor people actually get in trouble on purpose just to be able to live in there.

[Warlock]

Originally posted by CP5670

I don't really know what Bush did as governor, but it is good if he was brutal on these criminals; if anything, we need to be more ruthless. I think that the main reason the US has the highest crime rates in the world (in addition to the rubbish culture) is the very lax punishments; as Warlock said, the prison facilities are quite luxurious and sometimes poor people actually get in trouble on purpose just to be able to live in there.

Hell buddy .... I'm all for cheap and effective means of criminal prevention.....

Ditch the needles and electric chairs ....bring back the noose and public beheadings .... bet after a few times seeing what a murder charge gets .... ppl will think twice . And if not ...well hell ... you only buy a rope once ever so many ppl ...= $50
New blade ever year or two $300 perhaps  ?

Then take the savings and but it into more schools and such

[Nico]

Originally posted by CP5670
Of course, but there are not a whole lot of equations and formulas coming from there.

how do you know that?
btw, how'd you live in the middle of internatilan sea? no shop around to get food You'd have to do fishing!!! hargh!!! exposing yourself to sunlight!!!!

bzw, razor:

Just tell me what did he ever do right during his mandate. He just fights wars, brainstorms about attacking Iraq and other countries just because he thinks that they are involved in the events of 11.9. I mean, anyone with an electron size brain could have thought of that.

youy're not fair, he also planed his antimissile shield
her...
"slowly hides himself in a dark corner"

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by CP5670
Of course, but there are not a whole lot of equations and formulas coming from there.

Actually, apparently Seoul (S.Korea) has the highest ratio of PHD's per capita in the world.  I wouldn't imagine you subscribe much to non-english language journals.

Em.... capital punishment is regarded as wrong because justice is no infallible, thus making it state-sponsored murder.  Which is illegal.  Besides which, I think i'd prefer a quick death to the rest of my life in a prison being gang raped and beaten up....  It's also not massively effective based on the US's crime rate

To be honest, the US is far from perfect.  It's not exactly the 'Great Satan', either.  It's just like every country - flawed... and I think the main bugbear I have is the levels of pollution and waste from the US.

[CP5670]

Ditch the needles and electric chairs ....bring back the noose and public beheadings .... bet after a few times seeing what a murder charge gets .... ppl will think twice . And if not ...well hell ... you only buy a rope once ever so many ppl ...= $50
New blade ever year or two $300 perhaps ?

That's the way to go. If this type of thing is implemented I bet the crime rate will drop like a brick.

how do you know that?
btw, how'd you live in the middle of internatilan sea? no shop around to get food  You'd have to do fishing!!! hargh!!! exposing yourself to sunlight!!!!

I have not really been following recent physics discoveries that closely but at least in math, the main thing I can think of is the important Taniyama-Shimura conjecture on elliptic curves. (all the theories seem to be named after people, and one can tell where the guy is from by the name) Although one of the two men who discovered that shot himself and the other one has been in the US for over 30 years now.

As for the sunlight and fishing, that of course would very bad, but hey, I'm fine right here living with only some freedom. This is for others who want maximum freedom; you can get it there. (don't ask me what to do with your waste though... )

Actually, apparently Seoul (S.Korea) has the highest ratio of PHD's per capita in the world. I wouldn't imagine you subscribe much to non-english language journals.

Yeah, but after getting their degree (or in many cases, in order to) many of them come over here. (seeing as there are a significant number of Japanese-Americans, among other immigrants, on university faculties here; the system keeps running on immigration) Besides, these days anything important is immediately translated to all the other major languages; that wouldn't really be an issue.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by CP5670

Yeah, but after getting their degree (or in many cases, in order to) many of them come over here. (seeing as there are a significant number of Japanese-Americans, among other immigrants, on university faculty here)  

What happens when the foreign graduates decide to leave to work back in Asia, possibly because of a recession in the US?

[CP5670]

They occassionally do, but not really for economic reasons, since that is why they came here in the first place. Still, out of all the immigrants who come to the US either to learn or to work, maybe a half percent of them end up returning to their homeland permanently (and that is almost always for personal reasons), so that's not really a big issue.

[Styxx]

Tsk, tsk. All I see is personal opinions and vague claims... Where's the proof I asked?

[CP5670]

If you want the exact stastistics, there are professors who specialize in the history of science/math at universities; ask them what has been going on lately.

[Top Gun]

Originally posted by Warlock



Works for me ...I'd rather a killer get what they should than be supportted by MY tax money.

Do some counter reseach ... MOST prisons are better living conditions than of hotels for christ's sake.

I don't recall the figures and I'm too busy to look them up ...but when Tim Mcfay got juiced ,... I heard a report state that it was like **estimated guess here not exact** a thousand or so for everything needed for the lethal injection,.....yet at his age in the mid twenties...average lifespan being set at 75 ...they estimated 1-2 million to pay for his life sentence in prison.
 

If getting beaten up and gang raped is your idea of a good hotel I feel really sorry for you.

Eropeans got rid of the death penalty over fifty years ago and we have less murders per year put together than you do in the US. Almost every Sociological report on the subject says that the harshness of the punishment has no bearing on the murder rate. People should be locked up according to their danger to the public.

Is killing the murderer going to bring the murderee back to life? No. So why do we get so hysterical about ensuring criminals get brutalized? Most of it is down to our emotions, you know CP, the things you try to supress.

[CP5670]

Almost every Sociological report on the subject says that the harshness of the punishment has no bearing on the murder rate.

Really...look at some of the reasonably developed nations in Asia, for example. Many still have the "lashing in public" thing, but their crime rates are also far lower. Besides, it's quite obvious that people commit crimes because they think it is very easy (and it usually is, in today's system) to get away with them.

Is killing the murderer going to bring the murderee back to life? No. So why do we get so hysterical about ensuring criminals get brutalized? Most of it is down to our emotions, you know CP, the things you try to supress.

Of course not, but it will discourage further such incidents; that is all we want.

[Styxx]

Originally posted by CP5670
Of course not, but it will discourage further such incidents; that is all we want.

That is indeed so true. I myself would have them hideously tortured before putting them to death, it would be even better to suppress further crime...

(and you claimed the US was the leader in research, the burden of proof is upon you)

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Warlock

Works for me ...I'd rather a killer get what they should than be supportted by MY tax money.

Do some counter reseach ... MOST prisons are better living conditions than of hotels for christ's sake.

I don't recall the figures and I'm too busy to look them up ...but when Tim Mcfay got juiced ,... I heard a report state that it was like **estimated guess here not exact** a thousand or so for everything needed for the lethal injection,.....yet at his age in the mid twenties...average lifespan being set at 75 ...they estimated 1-2 million to pay for his life sentence in prison.


I have NO problem with killing a killer.

What about killing someone who was innocent?  There are, I believe, several convicts on death row who are mentally ill or retarded and thus whose convictions are shaky.  there's also the case - in particular - of a Scot on death row in the US who was convicted on Arson evidence - but the courts have so far refused to listen to the fact that he had a broken arm at the time (and was unlikely to be physically capable of the crime) and also counter arguements from other arson experts.

Also, what about frame-ups?  The US police service is not infallible in this respect, the 'Rampart' division (I think...) in Los Angeles is a pretty famouys example of police corruption.

and if you think jail is easy, maybe you should look up this word; 'Barlinnie'.

Originally posted by CP5670


Really...look at some of the reasonably developed nations in Asia, for example. Many still have the "lashing in public" thing, but their crime rates are also far lower. Besides, it's quite obvious that people commit crimes because they think it is very easy (and it usually is, in today's system) to get away with them.
 

I think you'll find those Asian countries have a vastly different belief and social structure to the US, though.... and the efficiency of the police force is also something to consider.

[Zeronet]

Lashings for littering would be good, then we could have clean streets like they do in Singapore. Everythings too liberal these days, favours the criminal too much.

[CP5670]

That is indeed so true. I myself would have them hideously tortured before putting them to death, it would be even better to suppress further crime...

That is exactly correct. When you strike fear into the people, they will obey. Why else are punishments of any kind issued in the first place?

(and you claimed the US was the leader in research, the burden of proof is upon you)

hey, I'm just repeating what I have heard and seen from history. I can provide you with a list of recent advances in math, but that's about it.

Lashings for littering would be good, then we could have clean streets like they do in Singaport. Everythings too liberal these days, favours the criminal too much.

I agree there; the western society has become way too soft on everything.

[Mad Bomber]

My views on random political things:

1) A world government is impossible at the moment. I can't see a reasonable solution to that, barring a giant natural disaster and/or contact with an alien species.


2) Bush is a moron because:

a) Firstly, he wanted to build a missile defense shield, by using (gasp) MORE MISSILES! Honestly, the military is close to having high-powered lasers! And missile vs. missile is not very reliable. Just have a "laser" shoot the incoming missile down, and be done with it.

b) Secondly, he's going off and declaring war on everyone. Sure, we had a good reason for going into Afghanistan, and smacking down the Taliban, but now this business with Iraq is ludicrous.

Saddam is an ass, and he might be stocking up nukes, but he's not going to use them unless provoked. He wouldn't be crazy enough to attack Israel straight off, anyway, since he knows that that would mean instant smackdown by Tomahawks and B-2's. Not to mention the Israeli retaliation.

c) Bush's right-wing stance on birth control and such. Does he think that teaching teens less about sex will help lower the teen pregnancy rates?

d) Bush lowered taxes (mainly for the rich) and then spent about twice as much as Clinton, by going into Afghanistan. Can you say deficit, anyone? Very good!

e) Bush's tax cut apparently has not helped the economy. And the deficit definitely won't, either.


3) I think the country is spending too much on the "drug war" and on prisons in general. Legalize pot, hemp, and ecstacy (albeit in limited quantities) and you'll free up about half the prison space! Plus you'll put a good number of drug lords out of business and save a bundle on law enforcement.

And the rest of the convicts could be sent to some sort of job training (sponsored by the govt) so they have actual skills when they get out of jail...

Mind you, I'm talking about ones that aren't insane, murderers, or whatever, just normal criminals like thieves, drug dealers, gang members and such. (So as to avoid the thing that smacked down Dukakis' campaign in '89.)

[Warlock]

Instead of direct quotes I'll label my replies by number/letter to which they relate...I'm being lazy



1: Basic dead on

2:
  A: You DO realize close is meant as in the next 20 years not weeks. At the moment a laser defense system would be outraeously over costly plus would require a hefty power supply to be as accurate as a point deense missle system

B: "War on TERROISM" remember. Bush didn't just wake up and say "Let's blame Saddam this week. They found more than they'll make public anytime soon. For once the lack of media about the war is perfect. When I was active it used to be a kick to the head seeing mission objectives announced over CNN! lol Sadly it's happened.

C: Honestly...the gov. doesn't NEED to teach kids about sex as much as their damned parents. If ppl aren't adult enough to raise their own damn kids ... WHY expect the government too ? ?

D: Funny ... I'm far from Rich and I noticed a healthy tax cut in mine plus the relief check helped a good deal. And 9-11 caused most of the economy issues .... I meant damn man ... only MOST of the major stocks and the world bank went down there.

E: See "D"

3: To a point legalizing it would improve things .... to a point. These days you give an inch and ppl take 1000 miles.

and training convicts ? Umm I'm only agreeing if it's the "underage kid that's never 'had the chance' type. Else then you go from "I live in a crappy house ...lemme rob a bank and get 3 meals plus a nice pad for 5 years free" ..... to "Well I'm too lazy  to go to school after work ... so I'll just rob a bank and if I get caught they'll teach me to get a better job so I won't have to rob that bank again"

[Warlock]

Originally posted by aldo_14


What about killing someone who was innocent?  There are, I believe, several convicts on death row who are mentally ill or retarded and thus whose convictions are shaky.  there's also the case - in particular - of a Scot on death row in the US who was convicted on Arson evidence - but the courts have so far refused to listen to the fact that he had a broken arm at the time (and was unlikely to be physically capable of the crime) and also counter arguements from other arson experts.

Also, what about frame-ups?  The US police service is not infallible in this respect, the 'Rampart' division (I think...) in Los Angeles is a pretty famouys example of police corruption.

and if you think jail is easy, maybe you should look up this word; 'Barlinnie'.



I think you'll find those Asian countries have a vastly different belief and social structure to the US, though.... and the efficiency of the police force is also something to consider.

I realize there's as many convicts falsely accused. Thus at the same time ,..which has been needed for a while,...the entire court system pretty much needs a good overhaul.

Don't get me wrong ... I'm not for "Oh ...we think he's guilty just shoot him" But when it's completely fool prove ,.. got a camera shot showing his face clearly during the crime etc etc ,... then yes .

EVERY hiring is a special case. As such they ALL have to be treated that way.

on one hand you have the guy that got pissed at his GF for coming home 5 minutes late ... was drunk and shot her....

on the other hand you have the guy how's little girl was kidnapped and once they found her he managed to get close enough and capped the kidnapper.

Both cases are a murder ... each with completely different circumstances and events.