Author Topic: Capital ships - the use in FS1?  (Read 17478 times)

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Offline Snail

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Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
So? Earth will be similar by 2335 ;)
Yeah, but it is said that the Vasudans were forced into space prematurely because Vasuda Prime was so inhospitable. This kind of leads me to the conclusion that the Vasudans eagerly left Vasuda Prime to find new life on space stations and stuff.

 
Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
So? Earth will be similar by 2335 ;)
Yeah, but it is said that the Vasudans were forced into space prematurely because Vasuda Prime was so inhospitable. This kind of leads me to the conclusion that the Vasudans eagerly left Vasuda Prime to find new life on space stations and stuff.

Imo, the Vasudans are the surviving Ancients.

But that's my theory.
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Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
According to FW, a Hecate is 2174 m long and has a crew of 10,000. Following that, a Fenris at 253 m should have a crew of about 1,163 if the crew scales proportionally. An Aeolus at 272 m should have a little more than that. A Deimos at 717 m should have a crew of about 3,300.
According to the debriefing of "A Lion at the Door", the Dhashor has a crew of 6,000, so we can assume that the crew numbers of a Deimos ranks somewhere similar. But I for myself consider those numbers quite overdrawn. I mean, what does a corvette need a crew of 6,000 people for, when a destroyer with all its deck crews, field engineers and pilots needs "only" 10,000?

So do I, actually. What would 10,000 people do in an Orion, anyway? Are there that many jobs/positions to fill?

Alright, some current Navy statistics:

USS Nimitz-class carrier:  317 meters long, 3200 crew.
USS Gerald Ford-class carrier: 333 meters long, 4600 crew.
The Charles de Gaulle, fully-loaded, holds a complement of about 2000 in a 260 meter hull.

And those ships are about 15% as long as an Orion, but pack one-third, half, and one-fifth the crew, respectively.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
They're also probably not nearly so automated.

Crew casualities seem to be relatively rare aboard GTVA ships; the only time they're even mentioned is when the GTD Phoenicia takes it on the chin from quad BFReds, which except for ship-guardian ought to blow the Phoenicia away; even then, it's only half or quarter of the crew (I forget which at the moment). That's an impressive achievement.

My guess would be GTVA ships operate on an armored box concept and the majority of the ship we actually see is nothing more than the exterior hull, just like a submarine. It's there for show and extra protection; they probably employ a triple or more hulled design wrapped around a relatively small and heavily armored crew area in the center. There's a lot of space to fill, engineering areas, machining shops; most of these ships probably aren't capable of atmospheric entry and they appear able to conduct operations almost indefinitely, as well as repairing even serious damage in the field. All this is wrapped around the central armored box section as well.

The central armored box houses critical systems such as power, manuvering, and the crew (the last while in combat); crew quarters may be placed outside or inside the box depending on the size of the vessel and other considerations; corvettes I would assume have quarters outside the central box, destroyers inside. In combat, everything outside that armored box is emptied of crew and depressurized. It acts as extra sacrificial armor for the central armored box; if well-compartmented this could actually go long way to explaining the incredible durablity of GTVA craft. Explosions won't transmit through vaccum, so a multiple-hulled design with a lot of sacrificial compartmented space acting as voids could absorb a great deal of raw explosive power, even nuclear and antimatter. A solid-shot armor piercing weapon would be much more effective, but the ability of armor to stop or deflect such a weapon cannot be underestimated. Having once made a study of battleship protective schemes I know just how hard it is to get a round through a well-designed set of defensive armor.

That would also explain the utility of beam cannon; they can't be deflected and a void space won't keep them from transmitting their destructive energy forward to the next bulkhead.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 08:45:59 pm by NGTM-1R »
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
And besides the armor, one has to make room for the normal/subspace engines and weapons systems.  I'd imagine those beam cannon heatsinks are rather sizable, and the engines required to move ships this large have to be enormous.  In fact, in the Colossus cutscene from FS2, a set of boxes appears inside the Colossus's hull when its crew complement is mentioned...but the entire rear third or so of the ship is empty, which would suggest that it's taken up by the engines.  (The boxes also seem to be set well within the hull, which would back up the multiple-hulls theory.)

 

Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
This thread has taken a very interesting turn.  :yes:
-C

 
Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
:yes: about the multiple hulls.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
And besides the armor, one has to make room for the normal/subspace engines and weapons systems.  I'd imagine those beam cannon heatsinks are rather sizable, and the engines required to move ships this large have to be enormous.  In fact, in the Colossus cutscene from FS2, a set of boxes appears inside the Colossus's hull when its crew complement is mentioned...but the entire rear third or so of the ship is empty, which would suggest that it's taken up by the engines.  (The boxes also seem to be set well within the hull, which would back up the multiple-hulls theory.)

NGTM1R, I just want to second Mongoose's suggestion that the Colossus cutscene provides strong evidence for your armored-box theory.

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
Hmmm...this is an interesting revelation.
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Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
I agree with NGTM about the multiple hulls. I do believe this is indeed the case with Freespace 2 capital ships, that they have multiple hulls to afford them better protection. The bridge of the ship could even be lowered in battle, affording yet more protection.

=edit=
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
It does have ship-guardian on it, but depending on the vagaries of your computer, it may or may not actually survive due to the way beam damage is applied.
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Offline Fenrir

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Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
When I played, it would sometimes survive and sometimes die. I always thought that was weird...

 

Offline ShadowGorrath

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Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
It survives only in retail. SCP has done some c**p that the Ship-Guardian flag doesn't work in the Phoenicia's case, and it dies. So it's the SCP's fault for all those lives lost aboard the Phoenicia !

 

Offline nubbles526

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Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
It survives only in retail. SCP has done some c**p that the Ship-Guardian flag doesn't work in the Phoenicia's case, and it dies. So it's the SCP's fault for all those lives lost aboard the Phoenicia !

 :lol:

I always thought it was meant to die....


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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
It survives only in retail. SCP has done some c**p that the Ship-Guardian flag doesn't work in the Phoenicia's case, and it dies. So it's the SCP's fault for all those lives lost aboard the Phoenicia !

I've seen in live in 3.6.7 at least.
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Offline ShadowGorrath

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Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
It survives only in retail. SCP has done some c**p that the Ship-Guardian flag doesn't work in the Phoenicia's case, and it dies. So it's the SCP's fault for all those lives lost aboard the Phoenicia !

I've seen in live in 3.6.7 at least.

Well, it never died to me on retail. But as soon as I play that mission on SCP- it dies. And I remember reading somewhere that it is really the SCP's fault...

 

Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
I do remember my friend telling me that he tried to save the Phoenicia by making it invulnerable, but only succeeded in making it VULNERABLE.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
I agree with NGTM about the multiple hulls. I do believe this is indeed the case with Freespace 2 capital ships, that they have multiple hulls to afford them better protection. The bridge of the ship could even be lowered in battle, affording yet more protection.

I'm pretty sure FS ships, like any sensible warship, have a CIC buried deep inside the hull -- not an external bridge that could be raised or lowered.

 
 

Offline Droid803

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Re: Capital ships - the use in FS1?
Well, the "bridge" subsystem on the GVD Hatshepsut is where the neck attaches to the body, so, yeah, it probably isn't some prominent structure like on ISDs and such.
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