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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Sarafan on August 11, 2007, 10:14:08 pm

Title: What's left to make?
Post by: Sarafan on August 11, 2007, 10:14:08 pm
So, yeah, by the end of FS2 the GTVA has corvettes, stealth fighters, AWACS, beams, flaks, etc, bla, bla, bla, pretty much everything. So what's left to make? What new types of ships are left for the GTVA to make? What do you all think?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: IceFire on August 11, 2007, 10:22:21 pm
All sorts of different things...pocket battlecruisers, full on battleships (like destroyers with no fighterbay), scouts, different kinds of cruisers, you could have a carrier with no offensive weapons but a large fighter bay...mmmm.  Lots of options.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mad Bomber on August 11, 2007, 10:29:16 pm
About half a dozen different types of Vasudan civilian ships. For starters, the Zods need a medical ship and equivalents to the Argo and Triton.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Polpolion on August 11, 2007, 10:30:26 pm
Fire support ships. Long range guns.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Sarafan on August 11, 2007, 11:07:30 pm
All sorts of different things...pocket battlecruisers, full on battleships (like destroyers with no fighterbay), scouts, different kinds of cruisers, you could have a carrier with no offensive weapons but a large fighter bay...mmmm.  Lots of options.

C'mon, thats the same as saying "just make bigger ships" and that's too dull IMO.

Fire support ships. Long range guns.

How so? A sniper cruiser, so to speak?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Shining_Saber on August 11, 2007, 11:41:18 pm
All sorts of different things...pocket battlecruisers, full on battleships (like destroyers with no fighterbay), scouts, different kinds of cruisers, you could have a carrier with no offensive weapons but a large fighter bay...mmmm.  Lots of options.

C'mon, thats the same as saying "just make bigger ships" and that's too dull IMO.
Not really, he was suggesting new things, unlike you.

As he said, little battlecruisers, battleships, even just improved versions of the ships they already have.  Theres lots of room for improvement.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Sarafan on August 12, 2007, 12:10:31 am

Not really, he was suggesting new things, unlike you.


Well, if I had any ideas, they would've been wirtten in the first post in the first place. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Gamma_Draconis on August 12, 2007, 02:02:30 am
Fire support ships. Long range guns.

Quote
How so? A sniper cruiser, so to speak?

I believe he meant ships equipped with long range beam weaponry that are directed though the use of TAG missiles. It would be interesting if they could make a laser variation of TAG.

Also, I predict the development of agile Stealth bombers, faster fighter deployment (BSG Viper tubes anyone?), a new scout fighter to replace the Loki, and a perhaps a new Super Heavy Bomber to replace the Ursa.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 12, 2007, 02:58:34 am
Anti-Juggernaut stuff.

Monitors, ships that launch 120 Helios bombs in a volley, gigantic friggin' missile with a meson warhead...
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 12, 2007, 03:01:27 am
I believe he meant ships equipped with long range beam weaponry that are directed though the use of TAG missiles. It would be interesting if they could make a laser variation of TAG.

TAG based weaponry, like the EAC Aesacus? And there could be long range missile launchers, not only beam cannons :)

Also, I predict the development of agile Stealth bombers, faster fighter deployment (BSG Viper tubes anyone?), a new scout fighter to replace the Loki, and a perhaps a new Super Heavy Bomber to replace the Ursa.

I really want to see a stealth light bomber(not the Scimitar, something different).

Was the Boanerges supposed to replace the Ursa?

Monitors, ships that launchers 120 Helios bombs in a volley, gigantic friggin' missile with a meson warhead...

120 Helios...or an Armageddon?  :D
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Ole on August 12, 2007, 07:23:33 am
Well, new weapon systems (no more Terran Turrets), Frigates (using the Iceni as a starting point), new Cruisers (either Anti-Fighter or Anti-Cap, like a new Aeolus or a Lilith-style GTVA-Cruiser), maybe even Corvettes with fighterbays like the Moloch had. In general I'd think, that some of the older ship types are scrapped for newer versions, while the newer ones just get upgrades. Of course GTVA would probably invest quite some time in investigations of shivan tech and some of the more modern technologys, like stealth-fighters, meson-bombs, AWACS oder TAG.

Thinking about it a second time, I guess GTVA might even start to explore some of the yet unknown systems. Loosing Capella means that they need new space for the refugees and new ressource-sources.

But of course, that's just my guess.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 12, 2007, 09:51:05 am
Yeah..there's a LOT of room for new ship calsses.

Missile and torpedos on chapship are underused IMHO..

You got so much rom here..just let your immagination go loose!  ;)
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Black Wolf on August 12, 2007, 10:14:14 am
Tonnes of stuff. Gunships, broadside cruisers, Blockade Runners, Customs ships - I'm working on a Littoral Combat Ship equivalent - designed to work in high gravity situations (like low orbit around a gas giant)
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Game_Master64 on August 12, 2007, 11:41:41 am
I'd suggest a juggernaut, but there last one didn't turn out to well. Who knows what we'd end up with, the GTVA Firehose?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 12, 2007, 11:42:14 am
Ya..you can devide ships by just SOME of the following factors (that determine their roles to boot)

1) MAIN WEAPON POSITIONING (front, side, rear, spread around)
2) MAIN WEAPON TYPE (beams, gunz, misiles)
3) WEAPON RANGE (long-range, short range)
4) AF WEAPON STRENGTH
3) SHIP SPEED
4) SHIP MANUVERABILITY
5) ARMOR
6) SIZE
7) CARRY CAPACITY (fighters, troops?, mines) - you can include things like number of bays, speed with which they can be launched
9) SENSOR SUITE/DETECTION (scouts, stealths)
10) SPECIAL ON-BOARD FACILITIES
MISC FACTORS..
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Hades on August 12, 2007, 11:43:57 am
I know what they can make-Science Cruisers/Awac Vessels that don't die easy.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 12, 2007, 12:03:11 pm
Who knows what we'd end up with, the GTVA Firehose?

:wtf:


I know what they can make-Science Cruisers/Awac Vessels that don't die easy.

Well, escort missions are supposed to be difficult :P

They could have AAAs or rapid lasers, but I think they're not going to become Aeoli.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: IceFire on August 12, 2007, 12:28:37 pm

Not really, he was suggesting new things, unlike you.


Well, if I had any ideas, they would've been wirtten in the first post in the first place. :rolleyes:
Use your imagination and combine it with various pieces of historical warfare and you'll see.  I wasn't just suggesting larger ships...I hate the perpetual larger ship syndrome thats so pervasive.  Some of the coolest ships to me are in the mid range.  If the AI can be made to be happy I'd love to see a gunship cruiser with few or no turrets to the sides or rear but an absolute hailstorm of fire emanating from the forward batteries.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: AlphaOne on August 12, 2007, 12:45:13 pm
Go poket destroyer! 1.5 km same badass waeponry as the Orion good aaaf defences fast agile dealdy but with a small fighterbay something like 80 or so fighter/bommbers ! Get you hands on some new energy disipating armour starp it on the newwest classes of arships if you can then send them off to battle. energy disipating armour should in theory reflet some of the energy that would of caused damage to the ship ! Thus reucing the beam eficenci of the enmy and improving the chances of survival.

Also get your hands on  a few frigates with the Iceni as the starting poin. Them go battleship battlecruiser class. Large enough warships 3-3.5km in lenght. They are not that huge compared to the biggest destroyers in game so it should not cause much of a [problem!

Also fleet carriers escort carriers and masive carriers capable of carring some 400 or 500 ships with rapid lauch tubes like in BSG!

Also vasudans could use an upgrade of theyr corvettes and cruisers not to mention medicalships and transports!
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 12, 2007, 12:47:28 pm
Light cruisers to fight against pirates, li3k Axem's Cretheus (http://www.axemspace.com/gtc-cretheus.html).
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Sarafan on August 12, 2007, 01:10:24 pm
Does the game even supports things like torpedoes? I've seen people talk about this for ages but I've never seen it in the game. :confused:

Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Polpolion on August 12, 2007, 01:25:43 pm
what do you mean by torpedoes? Do you mean Helioses on capital ships? Yes, they do.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 12, 2007, 02:24:07 pm
lesse...gtva tech=minbari tech

so after research and the war ending...


gtva=triad-vorlon-ish.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Polpolion on August 12, 2007, 02:48:24 pm
lesse...gtva tech=minbari tech

so after research and the war ending...


gtva=triad-vorlon-ish.

What the hell are you talking about :wtf:?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 12, 2007, 03:13:07 pm
I know what they can make-Science Cruisers/Awac Vessels that don't die easy.

Allready done...by me :p

Alltough, quite technicly, you can make even the Faustus into a fortress of DOOM...
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Gamma_Draconis on August 12, 2007, 03:42:28 pm

Was the Boanerges supposed to replace the Ursa?

Nope, the Ursa was an assault bomber. The Boanerges was suppose to replace the Medusa as the standard GTVA Terran Heavy Bomber. The Ursa was relatively new while the Medusa was an old workhorse at the end of the Great War.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 12, 2007, 04:33:38 pm
lesse...gtva tech=minbari tech

so after research and the war ending...


gtva=triad-vorlon-ish.

What the hell are you talking about :wtf:?

the technoloigical level of the GTVA. sorrow that they didnt have the money to have every turret a beam turret.

if you dont understand, watch babylon 5.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 12, 2007, 04:47:49 pm
The ship class the GTVA is sorely lacking currently that really ought to be there somewhere is actually pretty blindingly obvious, from the first debriefing in the damn game.

Assault Transport. Something designed to deliever troops to the surface of a defended world, in, say, regimental strength, complete with supporting armored and artillery elements.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 12, 2007, 04:50:17 pm
Assault Transport. Something designed to deliever troops to the surface of a defended world, in, say, regimental strength, complete with supporting armored and artillery elements.

You mean the 4th :P

I think that the GTVA already have some atmospheric marine transports, by the looks of it, we just never see them.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Sarafan on August 12, 2007, 04:55:05 pm
what do you mean by torpedoes? Do you mean Helioses on capital ships? Yes, they do.

Using a example is better, have you ever played Starlancer? Or saw the capship combat in it? I mean something like that.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 12, 2007, 04:59:50 pm
5-6 torps and any enemy ships bites the dust....of course, bombers could only carry 2 or 4 of them.

Protecting ships was hard there....especially given that anti-fighter turrets sucked BIG TIME

But I would like to see a weapon that looks like that plasma ball weapon capships lob at eachother (for no damage whatsoever, but it looks friggin great)
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Sarafan on August 12, 2007, 05:04:46 pm
Oh, IMO it wouldnt have to be a torpedo, it could be something more powered down, you know? To maintain the game balance, I used that more as a example of the weapon system.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 12, 2007, 05:11:35 pm
Tech the GTVA would probably need:

freelancer-style plasma turrets

converting all beams to slashers (have greater chances of knocking out turrets/subystems and vaporizing unlucky fighters)

b5 style multi-fire turrets

b5 style interceptor turrets

b5 style weaponry PERIOD

swivel beams (see: b5 triad weaponry)

tractor beams (see: star trek, star wars)

stuff they would probably end up making:

antimatter primarys (see: b5 vree weaponry)

ships that have no blind spots (see: vree ship desing)

true juggernaughts and "pwn all" ships (see: vorlon planet killer, nomad sun destroyer, imperial star destroyer, SSJ Gargant)

Gunships (see: ISA whitestar, FTX-011a THor)

Beam bombers (between gunship and bomber) (see: SB VInychal, AB Satyr)

Subspace torpedos (see: Local SSM, Cruise missle, Supernova bomb)

Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: ShivanSpS on August 12, 2007, 05:12:26 pm
Dynamic damage! i whant to fly over a beam hole on a destroyer... i whant to see ships apart when i hit them :D
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 12, 2007, 05:13:40 pm
converting all beams to slashers (have greater chances of knocking out turrets/subystems and vaporizing unlucky fighters)

I've seen TerSlash beams overshot so much it's scary (doing ~5% damage to a Fenris since it decided to go for the little just at the bottom)
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 12, 2007, 05:17:00 pm
Slashers just aren't that effective in my book...too much wasted energy...their damage needs improving IMHO...
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 12, 2007, 05:19:05 pm
that would be done, if i add this to the list

better beam reactors (more beam damge, longer beam life, longer ranges for beams)
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 12, 2007, 05:21:05 pm
I jsut HAVE to ask...anyone made something like this?

But I would like to see a weapon that looks like that plasma ball weapon capships lob at eachother (from Stalancer)
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 12, 2007, 05:22:11 pm
i've never played starlancer, so how can i know what it looks like?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Game_Master64 on August 12, 2007, 05:23:26 pm
Maybe an actual artillery piece, kind of like the RBCs, but more powerful. I've seen people put a bunch of small ships together and have them all fire at once, and call it artillery (gorgon cannon) but no true weapon.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 12, 2007, 05:24:35 pm
Like a bluish or jellowinsh fireball..but more...liquid...its burns and rotates as it travels to the target and expoldes in a splashy way.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 12, 2007, 05:26:04 pm
like charged lasers in starfox, but more like an aquaball from chrono-cross?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Sarafan on August 12, 2007, 05:32:58 pm
I jsut HAVE to ask...anyone made something like this?

But I would like to see a weapon that looks like that plasma ball weapon capships lob at eachother (from Stalancer)

I remember that, it looked like a heavy cannon of sorts but like you say it caused no damage whatsoever, maybe it was used to disable the enemy's shields?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 12, 2007, 05:36:32 pm
did it look like this?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 12, 2007, 05:43:15 pm
erm...similar, but not quite...I'll try to find an in-game screenshot
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Sarafan on August 12, 2007, 05:46:15 pm
Something else from Freelancer that would serve nicely in FS would be those fast firing cannons that the Coalition ships use in the FL intro, it would make a nice weapon to use with beams.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 12, 2007, 05:55:33 pm
freelancer-style plasma cannons were on the list. (or were they ion cannons? i forget...)
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: IceFire on August 12, 2007, 06:02:24 pm
Does the game even supports things like torpedoes? I've seen people talk about this for ages but I've never seen it in the game. :confused:
They are just missiles....we've always been able to do torpedoes.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 12, 2007, 06:04:32 pm
realy big missles that look akward coming out of a leviathans missles launcher.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 12, 2007, 06:05:46 pm
realy big missles that look akward coming out of a leviathans missles launcher.

They're the right size.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 12, 2007, 06:06:24 pm
depends on what you think is a torpedo.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 12, 2007, 06:11:48 pm
just use a bigger missile model (or longer)... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Sarafan on August 12, 2007, 09:43:07 pm
Would there be any way to add eletronics to your ship? Something like ECM or a targeting computer that helps you make better shots.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 12, 2007, 10:35:10 pm
homing lasers.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: AlphaOne on August 14, 2007, 05:36:36 am
has anyone tried to make a ship similar in usage to the whitestars from B5?? I mean i know they were not that powerfull or big when compared to many other stuff there but when put toghether in a formation or something 4-8 or more thy could take out almost anything out there.


also has anyone noticed in one of the B5 movies that Sheridan says at some point that the firepower on theyr new destroyer thingy...(cant remember the name) was not that much greater then an "average" whitestar....! Does that mean they had different tipes of whitestars some more powerfull some less??


Anyway something like that would really be usefull. They would be able to operate in groups and take on enemy cruisers corvettes and even destroyers without the presence of big capships.


Sure they would be very very expensive but then again they would be worth it! I mean they also must have shields....and refeltive tipe armour as in B5!
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 14, 2007, 05:42:08 am
A SHRUBBERY!
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: AlphaOne on August 14, 2007, 05:44:02 am
a what???? what a sruber...err....thing you said there??
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 14, 2007, 06:12:07 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrubbery

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python_and_the_Holy_Grail
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 14, 2007, 07:52:59 am
Dynamic damage! i whant to fly over a beam hole on a destroyer... i whant to see ships apart when i hit them :D
This is supposed to be GTVA tech, not FS2 tech.

A SHRUBBERY!
:wakka:

I think that the : wakka : smiley should be changed to :rofl:.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 14, 2007, 10:58:41 am
i want swinging beams on multipart turrets like what the shadow omega had!
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Sarafan on August 14, 2007, 11:56:00 am
A SHRUBBERY!

NI! NI! NI! NI!

 ;)

has anyone tried to make a ship similar in usage to the whitestars from B5?? I mean i know they were not that powerfull or big when compared to many other stuff there but when put toghether in a formation or something 4-8 or more thy could take out almost anything out there.


also has anyone noticed in one of the B5 movies that Sheridan says at some point that the firepower on theyr new destroyer thingy...(cant remember the name) was not that much greater then an "average" whitestar....! Does that mean they had different tipes of whitestars some more powerfull some less??


Anyway something like that would really be usefull. They would be able to operate in groups and take on enemy cruisers corvettes and even destroyers without the presence of big capships.


Sure they would be very very expensive but then again they would be worth it! I mean they also must have shields....and refeltive tipe armour as in B5!

A gunship, so to speak? I guess it could be usefull.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 14, 2007, 12:03:59 pm
ahem...steve-o's Thor. it was a reference for gunships in my list.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 14, 2007, 12:06:57 pm
NI! NI! NI! NI!

find ye greatest oak in the woods...and chop it down!..With a HERRING!



Quote
A gunship, so to speak? I guess it could be usefull.

I has made one some time ago...If my memory serves me it was mosly for escort duties...like a shilded mini-cruiser.. a few mekhu turrets and 2 cyclops launchers (alltough I guess i should change that to make it more usefull against capships...hmm.. M-10 torpedos! )
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 14, 2007, 12:09:30 pm
gunships are usualy just bombers with the focus put on primary weapons (GUN ships). so yes, the whitestar and thor are the best examples. trashmans sounds like a manueverable assault bomber.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: jr2 on August 14, 2007, 12:13:09 pm
If it hasn't already been suggested...

(http://wallpapers.diq.ru/wallpapers/24/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird.jpg)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird.jpg)
(wikimedia.org)

(http://www.habus.org/habuswallpaper.jpg)

Originally this plane was designed as an interceptor... but it was too fast for it's weapons! :mad2:

EDIT: Awesome overview of the engines (http://www.enginehistory.org/p&w_j58.htm).
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 14, 2007, 12:15:32 pm
oh for the love of a frawrkwig...


http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,48835.msg991173.html#msg991173

please, everyone, read that. then suggest things that arent on that list.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 14, 2007, 12:20:29 pm
gunships are usualy just bombers with the focus put on primary weapons (GUN ships). so yes, the whitestar and thor are the best examples. trashmans sounds like a manueverable assault bomber.

Not really...it has no gun/misisle points...everything are turrets. I'ts basicly a mini-cruiser
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Grizzly on August 14, 2007, 04:45:38 pm
Cloaking technology
Dreadnaughts (New name for the super jug?)
Ejector seats for fighters
Ship to ship torpedoes, (more powerfull misiles)
Indeed, gunboats.
Herrings.
A Mjolnir that actually has anti-fighter turrets as it says in the Tech Room briefing.
Something different then an Arcadia installation. more variaties in installations.
Fighter based weapon that goes trough shields (off-course, there have to be bad side effects for that one)
And I disagree with Aken Bosch that all beams should be converted to slashers, I think  all slashers should be converted to beams.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 14, 2007, 04:55:06 pm
Dreadnaughts (New name for the super jug?)

In FreeSpace, or at least in Inferno, Dreadnought stands for "Mega-Destroyer"(SODn Solaris).


Ejector seats for fighters

They already appear in many campaigns... :)

A Mjolnir that actually has anti-fighter turrets as it says in the Tech Room briefing.

The Mjolnir is supposed to have AAA batteries. The problem is that the developers forgot to add them...
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: MrBig101 on August 15, 2007, 12:10:48 am
A mass driver, perhaps?  Who needs beams when you can go all David and Goliath and shoot a huge rock at those pesky shivans?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Grizzly on August 15, 2007, 01:47:11 am
Alpha 1
Alphaÿ 1
Alphaü 1
Alphaë 1
Alphaä 1
Alphaé 1

and so on...
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 15, 2007, 05:47:19 am
That would be

Alpha 1
Alphaÿ1
Alphaü1
Alphaë1
Alphaä1
Alphaé1

Or else it would look like Alpha  1.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 15, 2007, 07:54:47 am
 :wtf:
That last one changes the pronunciation.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Agent_Koopa on August 16, 2007, 04:32:38 pm
:wtf:
That last one changes the pronunciation.

Uh... no. If you didn't know, those extra characters are unprintable; they show up as blanks in FS2, even though the font itself can display them. They're used to create several ships in-game with the same name, to represent a ship jumping out and jumping in again.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 16, 2007, 04:51:14 pm
They're useful in cutscenes. In mission cutscenes!

That last one changes the pronunciation.

They all change the pronunciation.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Polpolion on August 16, 2007, 09:20:26 pm
Ejector seats for fighters

They already appear in many campaigns... :)


There is actually no canon evidence for or against ejection seats in FS, or at least to my knowledge.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 16, 2007, 10:09:42 pm
the pilots eyeballs would pop out, followed by a good deal of their insides.

why? they're not wearing space suits, just thermal flight suits and oxygen masks! (command thought the indestructible cockpits of FS would be fine for keeping the vacuum out and the air in)
 
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: jr2 on August 17, 2007, 06:28:07 am
Eh?  How do you know that the suit's helmet visor doesn't auto-close?  The rest looks like a normal suit.  :p
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 17, 2007, 06:13:39 pm
because you see no evidence of a visor in the head.anis/fs1 intro cutscene
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: AlphaOne on August 18, 2007, 02:54:45 am
so then in a game where you get blown to pieces by multi megaton missiles you actualy care weather or nor you can see a helmet vizor or not! Whats the point???

you turn to ashes the second your fighter/bommber explodes for gods sake.


Also even GTVA command is not that retarted so as not to order space suits for its pilots.

The fact that we do not see them does not mean they are not available. For all we know they could be using some sort of force field instead of a normal glass or something vizor. The same tipe you see in the fighterbay. No doors there as far as i can tell but a ratehr powerfull forcefield
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 18, 2007, 02:59:41 am
Ejector seats for fighters

They already appear in many campaigns... :)


There is actually no canon evidence for or against ejection seats in FS, or at least to my knowledge.

Right. But this is the "What's left to make?" thread.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Jake2447 on August 18, 2007, 04:40:25 pm
I think that a ship that is small, fast, has a small fighterbay, and is armed with only beam weapons has potential.  It would be good for strike missions.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 18, 2007, 05:19:23 pm
"ISA Whitestar"
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Gamma_Draconis on August 18, 2007, 10:17:02 pm
I think that a ship that is small, fast, has a small fighterbay, and is armed with only beam weapons has potential.  It would be good for strike missions.

That sounds like a frigate.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 19, 2007, 05:13:22 am
The Iceni is a Frigate but it has no fighterbay.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Black Wolf on August 19, 2007, 05:57:08 am
the pilots eyeballs would pop out, followed by a good deal of their insides.

No, they wouldn't. Explosive decompression from 1 atm pressure drop is an urban myth.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Shade on August 19, 2007, 06:20:25 am
But, but... Hollywood says that's what happens, so it must be true...
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 19, 2007, 06:25:39 am
So... are F-16s really able to load 40279430893718532 missiles? :P
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 19, 2007, 06:42:15 am
Indeed...And we all know bad guys (minions) can't hit you if you just stay still and shoot them back. And we all know you'll allways hit them..they attract bullets..it's the LAW of the universe!

Oh, you can also dodge laser fire in RL ...and defy the laws of physcis when in an intense fight :lol:
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Gamma_Draconis on August 19, 2007, 06:44:03 am
The Iceni is a Frigate but it has no fighterbay.

A new class of frigates with a small fighterbay. Though I doubt such a ship would really useful. Why bother with a small fighterbay when a nearby destroyer can deploy a few wings to assist. Even though blob turrets are horrible at everything except shooting down bombs, I bet they're dirty cheap so the GTVA arms all of their ships with them.

Come to think of it, maybe they should develop next generation blob turrets. Maybe make it more effective against shields, capital ship hulls, and with increased velocity.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 19, 2007, 07:08:27 am
I have some of those. About as powerful as a Kayser.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Game_Master64 on August 19, 2007, 11:16:29 am
Come to think of it, maybe they should develop next generation blob turrets. Maybe make it more effective against shields, capital ship hulls, and with increased velocity.

they have, it's caled the maxim cannon
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 19, 2007, 11:17:50 am
And is there any canon evidence that the Maxim can even be fitted onto capital ships?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: CP5670 on August 19, 2007, 11:35:56 am
Well, if nothing else, you can always duct tape a fighter to the hull and make it work. :D
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 19, 2007, 11:54:47 am
And is there any canon evidence that the Maxim can even be fitted onto capital ships?

Makes sense it can...

I'ts like saying you can't fit a 20mm gun on the apache on a US navy warship..
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 19, 2007, 11:59:46 am
The Maxim, if you haven't noticed, is far superior to the blob turrets. Isn't it common sense it would need more energy?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 19, 2007, 12:05:31 pm
Isn't it also common sense that a 2km warship that can power beam cannons can also provide enough power for them?

A turret on a warship is the size ofa fighter - you could stick a fighter reactor in each turret and you'd end up with enough power for double Keysers easy.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Kie99 on August 19, 2007, 01:38:52 pm
I think the best evidence that Ejector seats aren't in GTVA fighters is that no-one ever ejects when their ship is destroyed.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 19, 2007, 01:44:03 pm
maybe the wingmen are just too stupid?

@Trashman: wheres that ingame screesnhot of the plasma blob?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Gamma_Draconis on August 19, 2007, 01:45:32 pm
Well, maybe fighter reactors are expensive. I'm talking about the next generation version of a cheap and reliable weapon. Besides, having Maxim blob turrets will just makes things a living hell.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 19, 2007, 01:48:21 pm
I think the best evidence that Ejector seats aren't in GTVA fighters is that no-one ever ejects when their ship is destroyed.

Well...in Colony Wars, the player ejected right before the fighter exploded. It could happen thanks to a special system.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: jr2 on August 19, 2007, 02:45:29 pm
I think you'd need an auto-eject system that sensed when the reactor was going supercritical and ejects the pilot... otherwise, there'd be not time to activate it.  Heck, even with modern fighters, there's usually not enough time to activate it... your engine is turning over at what, ~60,000 rpm?  A little damage to the wrong place and KER-FOOM!!!  You're a goner, unless you get extremely lucky.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 19, 2007, 02:55:42 pm
todays fighters usualy explode in a way that the cockpit is usualy spared (unless he has all his missles loaded, or the kill shot is too the cockpit)

but a ejected pilot in space would be shot down by shivans.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: jr2 on August 19, 2007, 03:01:29 pm
Hmm.  They try to armor the cockpit, yes.  How often that is successful (well, ofc, the A-10s titanium bathtub works, but most fighter jets are trying to save weight so you can win instead of lose...).
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 19, 2007, 03:06:19 pm
@Trashman: wheres that ingame screesnhot of the plasma blob?

Can't install Starlancer again...methinks the CD is damaged or sumti'n....gah...
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 19, 2007, 03:24:05 pm
i guess i'll do it from scratch then.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Sarafan on August 19, 2007, 03:46:21 pm
You know, instead of doing like everyone says, what really the GTVA should get in its turrets isnt the Maxim, it's the Subach. The Maxim just does damage against hulls and so if a destroyer was armed with them you would only need a couple of fighter wings to take it down, and dont tell me that old argument: the maxim can take down the bombs from really far, etc, etc!!! :rolleyes: It's a useless weapon against shields.

Now the Subach is the main GTVA weapon, its cheap since its their standard, has a nice rate of fire, good damage against BOTH shield and hulls, it would prove to be a much better choice than the Maxim.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 19, 2007, 03:49:50 pm
i think the SOC need a fleet of their own...maybe with integrated shivan tech?


i was thinking a shivan color and desing scheme for the fighters, and psi corps style color/weapon scheme for the caps.

weapons=blue, red or purple
textures=black, white, grey, and dark blue
fighters=spiky unorthodox desing, round half-orb cockpits/shivan style cockpits that blend in with the fighter.  red, dark red, and black color cheme. loki-like weapon placement.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Sarafan on August 19, 2007, 03:53:33 pm
i think the SOC need a fleet of their own...maybe with integrated shivan tech?

Why?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 19, 2007, 03:55:37 pm
because its cool. (and the GTVA fighters are a bit sub-par for special ops and stealth missions)
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Jake2447 on August 19, 2007, 04:08:30 pm
i think the SOC need a fleet of their own...maybe with integrated shivan tech?


i was thinking a shivan color and desing scheme for the fighters, and psi corps style color/weapon scheme for the caps.

weapons=blue, red or purple
textures=black, white, grey, and dark blue
fighters=spiky unorthodox desing, round half-orb cockpits/shivan style cockpits that blend in with the fighter.  red, dark red, and black color cheme. loki-like weapon placement.


Seems too much like the ideas in Inferno.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Sarafan on August 19, 2007, 04:09:52 pm
That's not a reason, if the SOC had a fleet of its own, they could get crazy and the GTVA possibly would've another GTI rebellion in their hands.

The Erinyes is pratical enough for special-ops, if they need something faster take the Perseus, and the Pegasus is stealth.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 19, 2007, 04:12:27 pm
what if the SOC was commanded by snipes?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Sarafan on August 19, 2007, 04:25:10 pm
what if the SOC was commanded by snipes?

What????? He's just a agent.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 19, 2007, 04:28:35 pm
ever heard of "rising through the ranks"? you dont know how many years after freespace 2 were talking about here.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 19, 2007, 04:32:56 pm
You know, instead of doing like everyone says, what really the GTVA should get in its turrets isnt the Maxim, it's the Subach. The Maxim just does damage against hulls and so if a destroyer was armed with them you would only need a couple of fighter wings to take it down, and dont tell me that old argument: the maxim can take down the bombs from really far, etc, etc!!! :rolleyes: It's a useless weapon against shields.

Now the Subach is the main GTVA weapon, its cheap since its their standard, has a nice rate of fire, good damage against BOTH shield and hulls, it would prove to be a much better choice than the Maxim.

Indeed... A science cruiser I made before hte Copernicus had 15 Subach turrets.... attack THAT shivans :p
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Sarafan on August 19, 2007, 04:38:44 pm
ever heard of "rising through the ranks"? you dont know how many years after freespace 2 were talking about here.

Yes, I heard of that. :rolleyes: But he doesnt seem like the commanding type, at least from what we see.


Indeed... A science cruiser I made before hte Copernicus had 15 Subach turrets.... attack THAT shivans :p

Good work! :D

Now make the rest of the fleet with that and we're set.

How long did the cruiser lasted against the shivans?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 19, 2007, 04:39:25 pm
how would it attach capships once its beams were gone?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Sarafan on August 19, 2007, 04:41:15 pm
how would it attach capships once its beams were gone?

Science cruiser dont have beams.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 19, 2007, 04:43:08 pm
Good work! :D

Now make the rest of the fleet with that and we're set.

How long did the cruiser lasted against the shivans?

Too long :lol:

Oh, it did have one Light Ion Cannon (500 dmg per shot) IIRC, but if it comes close those Subachs deal a lot of damage.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: akenbosch on August 19, 2007, 04:48:13 pm
a little mission to see whats better...AAA's or subachs

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: jr2 on August 20, 2007, 03:00:47 am
@Trashman: wheres that ingame screesnhot of the plasma blob?

Can't install Starlancer again...methinks the CD is damaged or sumti'n....gah...

Y'know, the CD/DVD/Game/whatever Doctor works like a charm... I"ve used it many times.  :D
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 20, 2007, 08:25:04 am
It does, although what it says about only doing the CD twice is bull. I did my PS2 007 Nightfire DVD 4 or 5 times and I got it to work in the end.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: jr2 on August 20, 2007, 08:28:51 am
Hmm, yeah, doing it twice is only for minor scratches (very minor).  But, on the plus side, even if you have to do it 10-20 times, it'll usually clean up the scratches unless:

a) It is a label-side scratch
b) It is a full-thickness (or that close to it) scratch
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 20, 2007, 10:04:39 am
a little mission to see whats better...AAA's or subachs

Can't be bothered to play. Which is better?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 21, 2007, 08:51:02 am
I made a more polished, equal mission, with Aeoli, and the AAAfs were winning hands down. I set the time compression to 16x and watched them die, and with the time compression set, the Subach started to win. The AAAf was down to 25, the Subach at 47 when i set the compression ratio to 1x. The AAAf was destroyed when the Subach was at 2%.

In short: AAAf wins, hands down, but dont compress the time.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 21, 2007, 10:22:47 am
Maybe it's just me, but do beams become really inaccurate with time compression?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: morriscat on August 21, 2007, 10:39:25 pm
I always thought a post-Capella GTVA could really use something like a Moloch, only not as sucky.

The Derelict campaign is (I think) a beautiful illustration of the kind of problems that the GTVA would be dealing with, and a corvette-sized ship that can  carry two or three fighter wings is just about perfect for hunting pirates and smugglers. I'm thinking a bit bigger than a Deimos, maybe 3 dozen fighters, and one Bgreen for offensive armament instead of 4 Terslash.

I actually modeled and posted a heavy cruiser way way back in the Volitionwatch days. 400m, 3 heavy flak, 4 AAA beams, and miscellaneous light turrets. I can't find any sign of it now, but that was three or four hard-drive failures ago. Too bad, it was really pretty.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: AlphaOne on August 22, 2007, 05:18:11 am
what the GTVA needs is a battlecruiser specificlay designed for combating ships equal or bigger in size then it is! Something like the Aeoulous but a bit bigger and more powerfull!

And some god damn poket destroyers very powerfull good aaf defences adequate fighterbay for hunter killer missions.! 4 or 5 BG in a forward eteriro firing ark for ofensive duties!
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2007, 06:16:47 am
Why does the GTVA need GIGA SUPER JUGGERNAUTS when all it has to deal with is pirates? For the first 10 years all I'd build is a "cheaper" version of the Aeolus and maybe some other convoy escort cruisers.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: jr2 on August 22, 2007, 09:20:26 am
y'know, actually, a lot of small ships would be preferable to one, big ship.  Say, if you sent 150 Leviathans after a Sath... :drevil:  The Sath might be able to get, what, one, maybe two of them down?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: AlphaOne on August 22, 2007, 09:32:18 am
Who said anythin about super uber juggs!

Just dedicated hunter killer warships massive and i do mean MASSIVE forward-exterior firing ark heavy beam coverage! Fast sleek agile good aaaf defences!

Also some sort of dedicated cruiser for combat nothing else just combat ! It would be designed to be able to take on anything equal in size and pose a very serious threat to corvettes and frigates.

Something like 600-700 m long a lot smaller the a corvette yet far larger then any cruiser!
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2007, 10:09:29 am
y'know, actually, a lot of small ships would be preferable to one, big ship.  Say, if you sent 150 Leviathans after a Sath... :drevil:  The Sath might be able to get, what, one, maybe two of them down?

Do the GTVA even have 150 Levys? Besides, the Sath would kill quite a few of them before going down. (it would turn, before you ask)
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: AlphaOne on August 22, 2007, 10:18:18 am
what are you talking about?? It would take down what 5 maybe 10 of them tops! Even that is a high number! I mean come on we have 150 beams concentrated on one ****! Sure i know they scuk compared to the shivan one but still its 150 BEAMS!
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2007, 11:34:16 am
5-10 SGreens are NOTHING against a Sath.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: morriscat on August 22, 2007, 02:11:06 pm
what are you talking about?? It would take down what 5 maybe 10 of them tops! Even that is a high number! I mean come on we have 150 beams concentrated on one ****! Sure i know they scuk compared to the shivan one but still its 150 BEAMS!

Sathanas beams have 3400m longer range than an Sgreen does. In the time it takes for the Levs to cover that distance, it could kill allmost all of them. (4 BFReds = 4 dead Levs every 10 seconds x 340 seconds@10mps = 136 dead Levs.)

What, you didn't think the Sathanas was going to just LET you start the mission with it in the middle of a globe of Levs, did you?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 22, 2007, 02:27:15 pm
The Sath would fire all 4 on one target (given the stupid AI) and you can allways have 75 levis come from one side and 75 from another...and when he starts shooting, the ones facing his beams jump out, leaving the 75 others to pummel it till they get back.

And you're assuming hte Levies won't jump in within the range of their guns...or that the Levis won't be waiting for a Sath, blockading the node
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Game_Master64 on August 22, 2007, 02:35:42 pm
what are you talking about?? It would take down what 5 maybe 10 of them tops! Even that is a high number! I mean come on we have 150 beams concentrated on one ****! Sure i know they scuk compared to the shivan one but still its 150 BEAMS!


well, techincally, the game engine wouldn't be able to handle 150 beams, and before you say it, it's a game, consider the constraints of the engine. It's not RL.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 22, 2007, 02:45:18 pm
It would be stupid. How many cruisers are going to be destroyed? Every BFRed shot can wipe out a Leviathan.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 22, 2007, 03:03:43 pm
actually it's very effective... 50 cruisers can muster more firepower than than several destroyers.

Just count  - 50 beams, 50 fusion mortars and 600 lighter turrets (terana turret/aaf)

Not to mention the crew loss... how much is the MINIMAL crew complement for a Levi? You lose 20 of them and it's stil lless than a single Orion.

Also, they are fast so a few beams are very likely to miss and they can get into Saths blind spots far easier than a Orion..
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2007, 03:14:11 pm
20 crew? There have to be FAR MORE than 20 onboard a cruiser. I'd estimate at least 1,500. Remember, the mission with the Warspite they say something about thousands of people going to die.

1,500 x 50 = 75,000 people dead.

BTW, if you painstakingly scripted the Sathanas' beam shots, then it would destroy most of the Leviathans.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Gamma_Draconis on August 22, 2007, 03:16:55 pm
Actually, I think the BFR beams will slice though several levs before it dissipates.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2007, 03:21:46 pm
Only if they were all lined up.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 22, 2007, 03:23:33 pm
Correct. Look at the Behemoth VS Vigilant com ani. The beams slice through. A BFRed could kill many Leviathans, if possible.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 22, 2007, 03:25:17 pm
20 crew? There have to be FAR MORE than 20 onboard a cruiser. I'd estimate at least 1,500. Remember, the mission with the Warspite they say something about thousands of people going to die.

1,500 x 50 = 75,000 people dead.

BTW, if you painstakingly scripted the Sathanas' beam shots, then it would destroy most of the Leviathans.

20 CRUISERS, not 20 crewmwmbers....learn to read :lol:

How much crew does a Levi have? I'd say between 500 and 1500, but we don't have any solied numbers here.

50 cruisers vs 7 destroyers...hmm... which one's better?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2007, 03:26:04 pm
50 cruisers most likely.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 22, 2007, 03:28:06 pm
So fro ma efeectivnes, crew losses and material losses standpoint, it's better to swarm a Sath with cruisers :p
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2007, 03:29:19 pm
Yes, but how many cruisers can you muster?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 22, 2007, 03:43:12 pm
Depends on the class. Aeolus cruisers would be better, they have 2 SGreens. The advantage given by the armour plating of Leviathan cruisers is useless since a BFRed is enough to destroy it.

Then, there are cruisers like the Eclipse... :P
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 22, 2007, 03:49:58 pm
Fenrises....tehy are the fastest, so Sath would miss more often :p
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2007, 03:50:57 pm
There were only 24 Aeoli.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 22, 2007, 03:53:40 pm
Fenrises....tehy are the fastest, so Sath would miss more often :p

They would evade the beams only if they're not pointing at the Sathanas. But I think that it would be difficult, a beam hits the target istantly.

There were only 24 Aeoli.

So? The GTVA will never send 50 cruisers against a Sathanas. In theory...50 Aeoli should be enough.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2007, 03:55:27 pm
Are we trying to be realistic or just plain "how to kill Sath" here?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Hades on August 22, 2007, 03:56:03 pm
Fenrises....tehy are the fastest, so Sath would miss more often :p

It is not.The Aeoli is the Fastest.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 22, 2007, 04:00:19 pm
Are we trying to be realistic or just plain "how to kill Sath" here?

We do not know how many Aeoli the GTVA and/or the NTF lost, so...

Fenrises....tehy are the fastest, so Sath would miss more often :p

It is not.The Aeoli is the Fastest.

Aeolus :P
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 22, 2007, 04:07:26 pm
50 Aeoluses can bring a comsicly insane level of anti-figter firepower to bear...All the Saths fighters and bombers would be useless.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2007, 04:09:10 pm
The Lev would be more effective in that respect.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Hades on August 22, 2007, 04:10:23 pm
Flak is not as weak as you think it is, Especially when it has 8 Flak guns. :P
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2007, 04:12:31 pm
Flak makes the screen go red. AAA kills you.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Hades on August 22, 2007, 04:15:58 pm
Flak kills you too.480 flak guns hitting you against 240 AAA.Do the math.:P
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2007, 04:17:33 pm
Against around 30 bombers. They would certainly die, but they would launch quite a few bombs too.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Hades on August 22, 2007, 04:19:00 pm
Also the Aeolus has 100 AAA guns as well.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2007, 04:20:03 pm
Okay, fine. but the Sath would still take quite a few of them down.

You know, this is kind of a stupid argument since there are only 24 Aeoli in existence.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Hades on August 22, 2007, 04:21:50 pm
Good point.Next Argument Will you please step forward? :D :P
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: jr2 on August 23, 2007, 03:59:17 am
The Sath uses 2 beams per target, upper and lower.  At least in my test mission...
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 23, 2007, 05:20:18 am
K, how about 24 Aeoluses, 50 Laviathans, 10 Demioses and 10 Sobeks?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 23, 2007, 08:16:42 am
K, how about 24 Aeoluses, 50 Laviathans, 10 Demioses and 10 Sobeks?

The Sath would loose, but take quite a few ships with it if it shot strategically.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Game_Master64 on August 23, 2007, 11:39:51 am
since this is essentially a sucicide misson, why wouldn't you just send less ships and go kamikazi?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 23, 2007, 11:43:47 am
Whats left to make i hear you say?? A science station, mebbe some merc fighters, a giant subspace chicken? :nod:
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 23, 2007, 11:45:36 am
a giant subspace chicken?

I need one of those.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 23, 2007, 11:46:44 am
One such mission will never be designed. The losses would be high. Let's put an end to this pseudo-spam...
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 23, 2007, 11:48:15 am
One such mission will never be designed. The losses would be high. Let's put an end to this pseudo-spam...

Considering we are trying to "realityize" this, it's possible.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 23, 2007, 11:51:25 am
Considering the fact that a "realityze" isn't possible in this case, you can't do it. It doesn't make sense. And it's OT.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 23, 2007, 11:52:27 am
Ok. How about just putting Meson bombs in Fenrises and slamming them into the Sath?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 23, 2007, 11:54:02 am
Are the Fenrises going to make it? No.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 23, 2007, 11:54:43 am
If it has upgraded engines......
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 23, 2007, 11:56:16 am
What about their hitpoints :P
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 23, 2007, 11:57:11 am
If they are able to outmaneuver the Sathanas, they will be able to make it before the Sath has a chance to turn around.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 23, 2007, 11:59:12 am
But there's a LRed, there are heavy turrets...and plenties of spacecraft. No, some Fenrises will never make it.

Take in consideration that they will always arrive a few clicks away from the Sathanas(the mission would be easy otherwise). :P
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 23, 2007, 12:00:06 pm
Then send in Alpha 1 (not a stupid joke here)... Would make for a good mission. A challenging one.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 23, 2007, 12:01:39 pm
Then send in Alpha 1 (not a stupid joke here)... Would make for a good mission. A challenging one.

I don't think so. The player is always supposed to win and survive. Are we taking in consideration a realistic environment, yes or no?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 23, 2007, 12:02:50 pm
What I mean is that the player is ordered to escort the Fenrises to the Sath, parrying enemy fighter waves, cruisers, etc. When the Fenris hits the Sath, you win.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 23, 2007, 12:06:32 pm
We don't know if some Meson bombs are enough. The GTVA needed three Meson bombs to destroy the Knossos. The Knossos is big, ok, but it's still nothing compared to a Sathanas. And keep in mind that the shockwave will eliminate the escort and the other cruisers before the impact. The Shivans could keep fighting, they're programmed to sacrifice their lives...but any Terran or Vasudan pilot would get far from the Fenrises when the explosion is imminent.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 23, 2007, 12:21:44 pm
A Fenris going off would wipe out all shibanm/fighters/bombers in a 3 klick radius...

So tehy jsut send several fenrises, each mantaining a 3 klick distance.. so what If a few go down? Small price to pay to bring down a Sath.

and a Knossos has hte exact same number of HP as a Sath mind you....
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 23, 2007, 12:34:41 pm
So tehy jsut send several fenrises, each mantaining a 3 klick distance.. so what If a few go down? Small price to pay to bring down a Sath.

It would be a problem. Keeping that distance means attacking the Sathanas from all sides...front included :blah:

and a Knossos has hte exact same number of HP as a Sath mind you....

It may have the same amount of HLP(:P), but it is fragile. And smaller. And shorter. And mobile. Either the Ancient stuff is very, very heavily armored or the Knossos hitpoints are bogus.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 23, 2007, 02:08:59 pm
It would be a problem. Keeping that distance means attacking the Sathanas from all sides...front included :blah:

Not really..they can be behind one another,  they don't really need to attack it from all sides...and when you got a dozen of them who cares if one or two get tagged...good distraction for the rest of them.



Quote
It may have the same amount of HLP(:P), but it is fragile. And smaller. And shorter. And mobile. Either the Ancient stuff is very, very heavily armored or the Knossos hitpoints are bogus.

Same ammount of HP = same ammount of HP.. How can it be more fragile????  :wtf:
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 23, 2007, 04:42:19 pm
It would be a problem. Keeping that distance means attacking the Sathanas from all sides...front included :blah:

Not really..they can be behind one another,  they don't really need to attack it from all sides...and when you got a dozen of them who cares if one or two get tagged...good distraction for the rest of them.

The problem is that 12 Meson bombs are difficult to have. And the mission would be a suicide one.

Same ammount of HP = same ammount of HP.. How can it be more fragile????  :wtf:

It appears to be more fragile. Come on, the Sathanas is much bigger. The Knossos should be much weaker than it currently is.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 23, 2007, 05:35:17 pm
It appears more fragile.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 23, 2007, 05:38:03 pm
The problem is that 12 Meson bombs are difficult to have. And the mission would be a suicide one.

Tehy stuck far more than that in the Bastion and Neried... and ever heard of autopilot?


It appears to be more fragile. Come on, the Sathanas is much bigger. The Knossos should be much weaker than it currently is.

Technicly the gate is bigger...a Sath can pass trough it, thats BIG.. The Sath has VOLUME, but it's insides coudl very well be very soft and vulnerable below that armor.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 23, 2007, 07:05:56 pm
It appears more fragile.

Hitpoints aren't always supposed to be realistic. And remember that the Knossos was destroyed "from the inside". There's no way to put 3 meson bombs inside a Sathanas.

Tehy stuck far more than that in the Bastion and Neried... and ever heard of autopilot?

Have you ever heard of fighter escort? :P

It would be a suicide mission for them!

Technicly the gate is bigger...a Sath can pass trough it, thats BIG.. The Sath has VOLUME, but it's insides coudl very well be very soft and vulnerable below that armor.

But the external armor is what matters. And don't know if the internals of Shivan ships are fragile. The Sathanas has more mass, anyway.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Kie99 on August 23, 2007, 07:32:41 pm
The hitpoints of the Knossos were put there so the player could destroy the thing in any reasonable time frame.  It was destroyed by a plot device.  You shouldn't take anything from the tabling.  GTVA could just put Meson Bombs into a few gutted Leviathans and ram the Sath straight out of Subspace.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 24, 2007, 07:41:56 am
Exactly.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 24, 2007, 10:28:18 am
Technically Hypothetical scenario, i suppose the GTVA could make many smaller scale Meson bombs and put them in Argo or Aeolus, or a purpose built kamikaze vessel.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 24, 2007, 12:21:12 pm
http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/FS/SK2_ForeView_1024.jpg
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 24, 2007, 12:30:21 pm
But they hoped that the destruction of the Knossos would have closed the node. Waiting for the Sathanas and use Meson warheads against wasn't a wishful choice.

http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/FS/SK2_ForeView_1024.jpg

Max Speed: 0,001.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 24, 2007, 12:47:41 pm
What makes you think the max speed is that? It far faster than that...

And the bomb/missile is even faster.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Snail on August 24, 2007, 01:04:45 pm
Max Speed: 0,001.

Really? It's got an Aeolus towing it, with extra engines. At least 10 m/s IMO.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 24, 2007, 02:10:21 pm
Ah, sorry...I thought the bomb has no engines :blah:

What's the point in having an Aeolus attached to it, then?
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 24, 2007, 02:43:41 pm
To move into launch position....give it cover with hordes of flak and EMP missiles.

When the missile launches it has 5 huge engines and AAAf beams of it's own. So it's like a VERY fast, large kamikaze cruiser.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Mobius on August 24, 2007, 02:45:19 pm
It reminds me a mission of Colony Wars 3, in which you had to "ride" a nuke as it moved into position.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 24, 2007, 02:50:14 pm
Dr. Strangelove
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Sarafan on August 24, 2007, 03:03:59 pm
Getting back to the topic of the thread, has anyone tried making a anti-capital ship gun that fighters could use has a primary weapon? Something apart of normal fighter weapons but it would be equipped as a fighter gun, a weapon completely dedicated to damage capital ships, and I'm not talking about the Maxim.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 24, 2007, 03:06:29 pm
I got's 2

The Redeemer and Reaper :D

Or are you talking about beam cannons? In that case I got 1...the Obliderator...catchy names, eh ;7

Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Sarafan on August 24, 2007, 03:11:14 pm
I got's 2

The Redeemer and Reaper :D

Or are you talking about beam cannons? In that case I got 1...the Obliderator...catchy names, eh ;7



You seriously need to better name your weapons. ;)

Actually, is it possible to equip more than 2 primary weapons? Something like 4? Would it also be possible for missiles? I'm thinking a fighter equiped with 2 anti-fighter weapons, one of those anti-capship weapons and a missile or two would be a nice thing to have.
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: jr2 on August 24, 2007, 03:35:50 pm
In TBP, the 80mm (?) primary guns do quite a bit of damage against capships...
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: TrashMan on August 25, 2007, 03:45:59 pm
@Trashman: wheres that ingame screesnhot of the plasma blob?

Can't install Starlancer again...methinks the CD is damaged or sumti'n....gah...

Y'know, the CD/DVD/Game/whatever Doctor works like a charm... I"ve used it many times.  :D

Huh? I got to get me one of those then

I dunno..it jsut sez something like: error: can't extract from lancer.cab cabinet file damaged...blah, blah :blah:
Title: Re: What's left to make?
Post by: Grizzly on August 25, 2007, 05:05:52 pm
because you see no evidence of a visor in the head.anis/fs1 intro cutscene

some kind of plastic?