[Fineus]

Aldo, I do agree - and I do think that parental abuse of children a problem at the other end of the spectrum - but I think we both agree that the 10 to 18 year old age range in this country has been wildly unchecked for some time now. In both my home town and here at University there are groups of (chavs) who honestly believe they're untouchable by society and - for the most part - they're unfortunately right.

The result is kids who think they can push the adults (and everyone else) around and there won't be any consequences. Perhaps it's because I did get (what I take to be) a good upbringing - but I can see the difference between right and wrong in these situations, and can't quite understand how most children in the afformentioned age range can't see that it's wrong to rape a woman, beat someone up or to steal.

So I find myself thinking that it would be a better bet to say "fine, you've beaten someone up - see you in five years" and put them in a place where they can't do harm to others, rather than saying "well you really shouldn't have.. it's a shame you had such an upbringing. Try not to do it again or else we'll ban you from going near this corner-shop!". Hardly an insentive to change your ways really...

[aldo_14]

Ah, well neds in general (neds being the proper term for 'chavs') do indeed need a good swift kicking.

[Dough with Fish]

So, I wonder what is going to be the scapegoat this time? My money goes on videogames, and maybe movies as well.

[pyro-manic]

Originally posted by Kalfireth
I dare say this sort of thing never used to happen (alright, perhaps it did occassionaly - but these days it seems that an aweful lot of 10 to 18 year olds are causing a lot of trouble in the UK).

I'm not saying I support child abuse, but a swift smack round the ear would probably sort out a lot of the problems where young children think they're untouchable.

Damn straight. This country is far too PC. Kids don't learn respect any more. They run roughshod over their parents, and do whatever the hell they want, because they know they'll get off with nothing more than a bit of a talking-to. I think it's partially the parents' fault (no discipline), but it seems that society has taken a dive in recent years....

[karajorma]

Not making excuses for him but

John Evans, defending, said his client had been the victim of sexual and physical abuse from a very young age.

By the age of three-and-a-half, concerns were being expressed about the boy's sexualised behaviour, he said.

"By 1995, when this boy could not yet have been four, he was being mistreated and indeed encouraged to engage in misuse of alcohol and cigarettes," said Mr Evans.

"Some might say that the signs were already there and that he was being significantly let down.

Smoking and drinking at the age of 4! His parents/guardian should be in jail for every bit as long as he is.

[Clave]

...just...so...wrong...

Things like this happening are a by-product of our society.  It's not one single cause I don't think, just a combination of decline in things which hold communities together.

There is NO respect for authority, parents, teachers, police etc.

No moral guidance is being instilled in the kids - I'm not saying religion, they just need to be taught the basics:- "this is right" "that is wrong"

The sense of shared responsibility has gone - nobody helps anyone out any more, they live in fear of either being attacked or being labelled as 'interfering'

Nobody has any consideration, either while driving, or just walking in the street - people I know have been verbally abused just walking their kids to school, without reason or provocation - I just don't get it.

The rise of 'chavs' and similar groups is just as bad, it starts making ghetto areas where ordinary people are afraid to walk.  

Every newspaper and game show on TV seems designed to appeal to the most stupid and crass people alive, simply to boost circulation/ratings.

I could go on, but I'll not risk being labelled an 'old fart' even though I am one...

Anyone see any solutions to UK 2005?

[Fineus]

I will say that the intensity of karajormas counter-point has given me food for thought. I'm not saying the kid should be let off - but my posts above didn't take this sort of thing into account at all. Of course at this stage - whoever abused him from such an early age also should be held accountable for what has happened. I defy anyone to be be completely normal having been put through such mis-guidance and mis-use.

All that said of course, it indicates that the problem of failed education stretches much further back than the current generation of teenagers. Evidently adults have been raised without proper notions of how to care for their children.

[karajorma]

I think that's the problem. I've heard of so many cases where a teacher has tried to disipline a child in their class only to end up facing the wrath of their parent.

Don't know about you guys but if I did something bad the last thing I wanted to happen was for my parents to know because I knew that whatever the teachers did to me would be nothing in comparison to the telling off I'd get at home. Far from taking my side they'd come down on the side of the teacher almost every time.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by karajorma
Not making excuses for him but



Smoking and drinking at the age of 4! His parents/guardian should be in jail for every bit as long as he is.

****ing hell...... it did mention in the article (dunno if it was updated since I posted) he'd had a bad upbringing, but not to that level.  Probably means he does need prison, though, in order to undo that damage.  Whether it's too late or not, I guess, is something the parole board will have to determine.....

[Grey Wolf]

It's mentioned in the article. Physical and sexual abuse, drinking, smoking, etc.

[WMCoolmon]

Originally posted by aldo_14


****ing hell...... it did mention in the article (dunno if it was updated since I posted) he'd had a bad upbringing, but not to that level.  Probably means he does need prison, though, in order to undo that damage.  Whether it's too late or not, I guess, is something the parole board will have to determine.....

I don't think prison is going to help any. Never been there myself, but I don't want to be there, either, considering the stuff I've heard about the general conditions.

Much as I hate to say it, it sounds to me like he needs some sort of psychological help. I'm certainly not the biggest advocate of it either, my experiences can be summed up with, "Psychicatry is the art of belittling other people." But this sounds like a pretty damn extreme case.

But I'm sort of skeptical of the rape deal. I find it hard to believe that at 12, the kid was able to rape his teacher, unless he was above-average and the teacher was below-average in physical capacity.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Grey Wolf
It's mentioned in the article. Physical and sexual abuse, drinking, smoking, etc.

It's been extended.  When I first posted it, it was only the first 3/4 paragraphs or so there.

Originally posted by WMCoolmon


I don't think prison is going to help any. Never been there myself, but I don't want to be there, either, considering the stuff I've heard about the general conditions.

Much as I hate to say it, it sounds to me like he needs some sort of psychological help. I'm certainly not the biggest advocate of it either, my experiences can be summed up with, "Psychicatry is the art of belittling other people." But this sounds like a pretty damn extreme case.

But I'm sort of skeptical of the rape deal. I find it hard to believe that at 12, the kid was able to rape his teacher, unless he was above-average and the teacher was below-average in physical capacity.

Well, if he was found mentally competent.... there is usually (I think) some form of psychological counselling provided at prison, especially where youths are held.  

I don't know of detailed care programs.  The most famous was probably the Special Unit at Barlinnie (used to try and rehab the most violent prisoners - in many ways Barlinnie can be regarded as Scotlands Alcatraz in terms of notoriety), but that was controversially shut down.

[Jetmech Jr.]

This is sick. I'm not sure who I hate more, the kid, or his parents.

The ****ing pricks should have their tongues spiked to a door.

[Stealth]

what a damn freak.  sexually active at three and a half.  what a joke.  i think he got what he deserved, the bastard, you can't go and say someone his age deserves counseling or whatever... or you'll have 12 and 13 year olds running the streets.  he knew what he was doing, damn right, and he got caught, and i hope he rots in prison for it.  

at least we all know he'll feel what it's like getting raped on a daily basis in prison

[WMCoolmon]

The more I hear people say this kid was a bastard or whatever without seeing any of the evidence, the more skeptical I become of the case.

[Annorax]

Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
This is sick. I'm not sure who I hate more, the kid, or his parents.

The ****ing pricks should have their tongues spiked to a door.

Nah, that's a little cruel.

Spike their tongues to the door, then rip them off and set them (kid included) in for a nice, long torture session (years if possible) until it's no longer possible to torture them anymore for fear of killing them.

Then throw them into the general prison population.

(yes, I favor the death sentence for rape, and savage beatings and slow, painful executions for the kind of moronic "parents" that let a MOTHERF***ING FOUR YEAR OLD SMOKE AND DRINK)