Author Topic: OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland  (Read 4440 times)

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Offline Grey Wolf

OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
I was just wondering what opinion you all have on the status of the 6 northern counties. Do you feel they should stay with the UK, or join with the Republic of Ireland?
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline Galemp

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OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
Why are you asking us? It's up to THEM. Think of Western Virginia, which split off from Virginia in the American Civil War; they went and did their own thing. Nobody forced them to.
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Offline Grey Wolf

OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
I was just wondering what everyone's opinion is. Does asking for an opinion hurt them at all? I think not.
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline The Claw

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OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
It would be simple if the whole population decided one way or the other. But since they are split, there is no easy way to decide- thus the rather protracted and seemingly useless peace process (note "Seemingly" useless, in that here in Britain, all you hear about are the collapses in the proceedings).
 I sometimes think that our troops should pull out all together, but that would not only lead to violence in Ireland, but on the mainland as well. I personally don't think power sharing is the way forwards either- the representatives from one side or the other are always trying to get one over the others... suprisingly like modern democracy all over the world, on closer consideration. But still, the hostilities there are just under the skin, and are liable to break free.
 It is definatly a conundrum, for which I have no answer. maybe power sharing is the way forwards, but I personally don't see much coming of it unless they put aside their differences. And, well, I'd probably be more likely to see Satan skating to work than that.
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Offline diamondgeezer

OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
I really don't think it's a good idea to start with this stuff. We've all seen what this 'discussion' has done to Ireland since 1916... bleh, it's bad enough having to cope with the situation in real life than drag it in here (though if Mr Blair asked me, I'd tell him to put Ireland back like it was before we invaded it, and say sorry for the whole affair).

 

Offline Zeronet

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OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
Almost unrelated, but did you know in Ireland, there is a castle O'Dea(which is my surname).

Um, the hostilities arent under the skin, their pretty open, hence the riots you get. I dont think its really a good thing to discuss. Its too close to home.
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Offline aldo_14

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OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
I reckon they should just hold a referendum nd find out what the people actually want.......


What a revolutionary idea, eh?  Actually asking the people what they want...it'll never catch on

 

Offline diamondgeezer

OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
What ever is chosen, though, you're gonna make at least one lot of paramilltaries even more cross with the whole thing. Seems like the government has decided it'd be easier just to let the whole big mess of a situation rumble on, on a sort of 'if we poke it, it might get worse' sort of mentality...

 

Offline Martinus

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OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
I reckon they should just hold a referendum nd find out what the people actually want.......


What a revolutionary idea, eh?  Actually asking the people what they want...it'll never catch on


Good in theory, bad in practice. You see the main loyalist/unionist politicians ((the ones who want to stay with the UK) - for all those who aren't sure about who's who.) Will never agree to let the south (republic) have any vote in what happens to the north. Currently they represent the slight majority of the population (the unionist and loyalist people). If you let the republic of Ireland have a say in what happens to N. Ireland then you suddenly have a vast majority of nationalists who would vote to make the country united.

The unionists currently posess the highest ranking jobs and positions with few exceptions so they basically run the country. They also have the backing of the British government which means that any nationalist (person who wants a united Ireland) is basically powerless unless he/she decides to blow something up which as I'm sure we can all agree is not exactly the most PR friendly thing to do.

On top of all the political word wars you have splinter factions of loyalist and nationalist terrorists doing a great job of making the rest of us feel more than a little anxious. Loyalists will kill any catholics/nationalists whilst the IRA splinter factions will kill military targets (and believe me 'military target' is a remarkably wide target criteria i.e. they killed the guy who cleaned the local police station). Both sides also are in essence mafia style organised crime syndicates and hand out any number of beatings, shootings and killings that they deem appropriate (thieves and joyriders are prime targets).

Where am I in all this mess? Sitting on the fence keeping my mouth shut. :sigh:

 

Offline aldo_14

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OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor


Good in theory, bad in practice. You see the main loyalist/unionist politicians ((the ones who want to stay with the UK) - for all those who aren't sure about who's who.) Will never agree to let the south (republic) have any vote in what happens to the north. Currently they represent the slight majority of the population (the unionist and loyalist people). If you let the republic of Ireland have a say in what happens to N. Ireland then you suddenly have a vast majority of nationalists who would vote to make the country united.


Um... I meant  a referendum in Northern Ireland to ask the people there which country they'd rather be on.  The only rason I can see against this is that neither faction can guarentee they'll win.

 

Offline Crazy_Ivan80

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OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
I reckon they should just hold a referendum nd find out what the people actually want.......


What a revolutionary idea, eh?  Actually asking the people what they want...it'll never catch on


iirc they did a while ago (some decades i think):the result was to remain with the UK.

Ireland itself has given up the claim to N-Ireland
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Offline vyper

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OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
Churchill had the right idea. *cough* Black and Tans *cough*
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14

 

Offline Martinus

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OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
Quote
Originally posted by vyper
Churchill had the right idea. *cough* Black and Tans *cough*


That's not funny, in fact it's pretty appauling.

How would you like it if a guy came around to your house and beat the crap out of you for something your neighbour did? That in essence is pretty much what the Black and Tans did.

Indirect revenge, wonderful concept. Let's all hope it catches on...


:confused:

 

Offline vyper

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OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor


That's not funny, in fact it's pretty appauling.

How would you like it if a guy came around to your house and beat the crap out of you for something your neighbour did? That in essence is pretty much what the Black and Tans did.

Indirect revenge, wonderful concept. Let's all hope it catches on...


:confused:


Thats a tad over-simplified.
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Offline Martinus

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OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
Quote
Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80


iirc they did a while ago (some decades i think):the result was to remain with the UK.

Ireland itself has given up the claim to N-Ireland


No such event ever occurred. The unionists would never allow a referendum to happen unless they had a guarantee that they would win.

BTW aldo, any change in the status of northern Ireland would directly affect the republic as it would have aprox. 1 million new citizens, the implications on goverment, security and welfare of the entire country are pretty significant. How can you allow the republic's people to have no say in it?

 

Offline Martinus

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OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
Quote
Originally posted by vyper


Thats a tad over-simplified.


I didn't want to jump headfirst into a history lesson and I think it gets the general concept across.

 

Offline vyper

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OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor
No such event ever occurred. The unionists would never allow a referendum to happen unless they had a guarantee that they would win.  


Oh righty.... *abandons argument* :doubt:
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Offline aldo_14

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OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor


No such event ever occurred. The unionists would never allow a referendum to happen unless they had a guarantee that they would win.

BTW aldo, any change in the status of northern Ireland would directly affect the republic as it would have aprox. 1 million new citizens, the implications on goverment, security and welfare of the entire country are pretty significant. How can you allow the republic's people to have no say in it?


I'm really just talking over settling the issues in N.Ireland.  If the vote turned out to be pro joining Eire, then it would then be up to Ireland if they wished to take on N.Ireland or not.... but you have to find out what the people of Northern Ireland to make any meaningful progress.

 

Offline Martinus

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OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14


I'm really just talking over settling the issues in N.Ireland.  If the vote turned out to be pro joining Eire, then it would then be up to Ireland if they wished to take on N.Ireland or not.... but you have to find out what the people of Northern Ireland to make any meaningful progress.



I wish it could be that simple, the vast majority of people here genuinely want peace. Extremists are allowed to effect the way the country is run though so the rest of us basically have no real power. :sigh:

Even though there is a peaceful majority a lot of problems would still come from trying to remove, form or change current alliances with UK or the republic.

Personally I think N. Ireland should be it's own country, somewhat like scotland in fact.

 

Offline Grey Wolf

OT: The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor
Personally I think N. Ireland should be it's own country, somewhat like scotland in fact.
Sorry to point this out, but the country of Scotland and the country of England ceased to exist due to the Act of Union. Hence, your statement is contradictory.
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw