Author Topic: Hey all you evolutionists  (Read 11209 times)

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Offline mikhael

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Hey all you evolutionists
I'll regret it, but here goes.

This guy's basic argument is broken on so many points that it hurts to read, but I'll address them all.

Quote

Observed phenomena:

Most thinking people will agree that--
1. A highly ordered universe exists.
2. At least one planet in this complex universe contains
   an amazing variety of life forms.
3. Man appears to be the most advanced form of life on this planet.
[/b]
Well, I'm with him so far. Point 3 seems to be mostly opinion, but being a human, I'm willing to buy into it.

Quote

Known options:

Choices of how the observed phenomena came into being--
1. The universe was created by God.
2. The universe always existed.
3. The universe came into being by itself by purely natural processes (known as evolution) so that no appeal to the supernatural is needed.
[/b]
See, I'm with him on the possibilities until he gets his science utterly wrong. Evolution has nothing to do with the creation, or development of the universe. Time for a trip back to "On the Origin of Species". The creation and development of the universe is the subject of cosmology. some people might refer to the development of the universe over time as 'evolution' but that's strictly a misnomer.

Quote

Evolution has been acclaimed as being the only process capable of causing
the observed phenomena.

Evolution is presented in our public school textbooks as a process that:

1. Brought time, space, and matter into existence from nothing.
[/b]
   WRONG. The theory of evolution does not state or imply anything about the creation of the universe.
Quote

2. Organized that matter into the galaxies, stars, and at least
   nine planets around the sun. (This process is often referred
   to as cosmic evolution.)
[/b]
   WRONG. The theory of evolution does not state or imply anything about the accretion of galactic, solar or planetary systems.
Quote

3. Created the life that exists on at least one of those planets
   from nonliving matter (chemical evolution).
[/b]
   WRONG. The theory of evolution does not state or imply anything about the origins of life. Though some people may think it does, they need to go back and read "On the Origin of Species". Darwin makes no claims as to the origin of life in his theory.
Quote

4. Caused the living creatures to be capable of and interested in
   reproducing themselves.
[/b]
   I'd have to say that by the strict tenets of the principle of survival of the fittest (in a species context), only organisms that felt the urge to reproduce and then did so would have offspring. The ones that don't reproduce, naturally have no offspring. Basically, as the old saying goes, "life is a(n) (a)sexually transmitted disease."   
Quote

5. Caused that first life form to spontaneously diversify into different
   forms of living things, such as the plants and animals on the earth
   today (biological evolution).
[/b]
   There's an assumption here that I find rather interesting: that there was a 'first' life form. I can see no logical reason why there can't have been many 'first' life form. If there can be many 'first' life-forms (IE sources for branching diversity), then diversity and complexity are built into the system from the beginning.

Quote

People believe in evolution; they do not know that it is true. While
beliefs are certainly fine to have, it is not fair to force on the
students in our public school system the teaching of one belief, at
taxpayers’ expense. It is my contention that evolutionism is a religious
worldview that is not supported by science, Scripture, popular opinion,
or common sense. The exclusive teaching of this dangerous, mind-altering
philosophy in tax-supported schools, parks, museums, etc., is also a
clear violation of the First Amendment.

Evolution is not a 'belief'. It is a theory and as such, could be wrong. It
does explain, quite nicely, why human embryos develop and lose gills during
gestation, why they develop and lose tails. It also explains why the basic
skeletal system of all vertebrates are so very similar. At no point, however,
does this theory ever purport to be anything other than a theory.
In the end he makes a very important mistake. He declares evolution to be a "religious
worldview that is not supported by science". The problem here, is that evolution IS
supported by science. It is a theory based on known data, presents a hypothesis to
explain the data, and makes certain predictions that can be tested (albeit in a very
long time frame). That makes it science, and good science at that. No, evolution is
not supported by Scripture. Scripture has the problem of being political, not
scientific. Because the body of Scripture as we know it today is the product of several
editorial rewrites (notably the Dueteronomists) and retranslations (such as the dubious
translation of the word 'maiden' into the greek word for 'virgin') and political
choices (notably the decision in the third century AD to include the Gospel of John
as Canon, but to actively hide the Gospel of Thomas), we can hardly trust its Word.
Popular opinion matters not at all in scientific matters. Popular opinion was once that
the Earth was the center of the Universe. That did not make it so.
"Common sense" is hardly ever "common". Common (european) sense once said that the
Earth was flat, while common (chinese) sense held it to be round before Christ was born.
If ever an alternative, fact-based, scientifically reasoned theory that explained
the origin of life on this planet was created, I'm sure it would be given equal time
with evolution in our tax-supported schools, museums, etc (probably not parks, since
I know of know park dedicated to evolution). Evolution is, again, a theory, not a fact.

The First Amendment does not even come into play on the discussion of evolution.
Quote

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting
the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or
the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for
a redress of grievances.

By teaching evolution as a scientific theory, schools are not establishing a religion,
abridging free speech, the free press, free assembly or redress of greivances.

Really now, folks, hasn't this been done to death? Let it rest. Its just a theory,
in the strictest scientific sense of the word.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2003, 08:00:14 pm by 440 »
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

 

Offline diamondgeezer

Hey all you evolutionists
Quote
Originally posted by HotSnoJ
And please don't point out your precious bones because they have been proven to be human or ape and/or a hoax.

Then please don't point out your precious book, as I'm not going to accept that it's true because it claims to be. And as for the human/ape/hoax bit, you've just shown us that no idea at all about the evolution of human beings, so I'm bowing out of the debate. Thanks, it was fun.

Oh, and God asked me to say hi.

 

Offline karajorma

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Hey all you evolutionists
Quote
Originally posted by Flipside
One interesting Question is, of course, if theres no such thing as evolution and these fossils are put there as a 'test of faith', why are we now finding that some of these 'tests' are alive and well about 2 miles under the ocean?


One more question. Do these "test of faith" people ever consider the fact that christianity might actually itself be a test of faith set by Vishnu and that they've in fact failed?

Worse yet what if it's a test by Amon-Ra and everybody since the ancient egyptians has failed? :lol:
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Offline HotSnoJ

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quick reply (more will follow)
Quote
why human embryos develop and lose gills during   gestation
What?! Human embryos never have gills, it's just skin that is wrinkled so it looks like gills.
I have big plans, now if only I could see them through.

LiberCapacitas duo quiasemper
------------------------------
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Offline redsniper

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Hey all you evolutionists
Well, I'm a religious person, but I'm NOT creationist.  I know the Big Bang theory and the theory of evolution are right. Not the faith the theory.  I like to think that instead of God watching us all the time and controlling everything, he just created the universe with all the scientific laws and rules it has and let things happen on their own from there.... um yeah creationism is crazy
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Offline Warlock

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Hey all you evolutionists
HotSnoJ: I've got one for you. Why is it that Creationists can't simply concider the possibility that "Adam and Eve" were ancient man (Neanderthal, etc-Sorry don't feel like looking up proper names :P )?

I was raised Roman Catholic,...and even when I was a kid I wondered,..."Ok God made man in his own image eh? Who the hell said that image is MY image currently? ?"

 Why can't it be that perhaps God's image at the time was a caveman? Especially being it's image,...not carbon copy.

Seriously thou,...at least an Evolutionist will listen to a theory, concept, belief, etc,...then concider and analize it against what is known true. Beats the hell out of :

"NO you're wrong! Why?! Because a BOOK that was written hundreds of Years ago by a MAN said so!!! So that man claimed he heard from God,..and today we lock ppl up for saying that..."
Warlock



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Offline Zeronet

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Re: quick reply (more will follow)
Quote
Originally posted by HotSnoJ
What?! Human embryos never have gills, it's just skin that is wrinkled so it looks like gills.


Denial is the most predictable creationist response :p
Got Ether?

 

Offline mikhael

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Re: quick reply (more will follow)
Quote
Originally posted by HotSnoJ
What?! Human embryos never have gills, it's just skin that is wrinkled so it looks like gills.


Your lack of understanding of embryonic development astounds me. A quick trip to any developmental biology text will show you that yes, indeed, human embryos develop gill structures, not 'wrinkled' skin.
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

 

Offline Thorn

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Re: Re: quick reply (more will follow)
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael


Your lack of understanding of embryonic development astounds me. A quick trip to any developmental biology text will show you that yes, indeed, human embryos develop gill structures, not 'wrinkled' skin.


Something I learned in grade 12 Biology. Its a proven fact.
I'm with mik... Give it a rest... you're beating a dead horse...

 

Offline HotSnoJ

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Hey all you evolutionists
Ok like Galileo I'll drop it for now even though I know I'm right.
I have big plans, now if only I could see them through.

LiberCapacitas duo quiasemper
------------------------------
Nav buoy - They mark things

 

Offline Zeronet

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Hey all you evolutionists
Quote
Originally posted by HotSnoJ
even though I know I'm right.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Been taking lessons from our Iraqi friend?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2003, 08:15:57 pm by 419 »
Got Ether?

 

Offline Woolie Wool

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Hey all you evolutionists
Yeah, SURE you're right...:rolleyes:
16:46   Quanto   ****, a mosquito somehow managed to bite the side of my palm
16:46   Quanto   it itches like hell
16:46   Woolie   !8ball does Quanto have malaria
16:46   BotenAnna   Woolie: The outlook is good.
16:47   Quanto   D:

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Offline Kamikaze

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Hey all you evolutionists
Ooooh, ahhhhh.... the dogma aura illuminates the thread in an eerie glow...
Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceding generation . . .Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. - Richard Feynman

 

Offline Zeronet

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Hey all you evolutionists
Google image search is far better than the website search, on this subject, as it cuts out all the creationism stuff and replaces it with funny pictures.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2003, 04:52:05 pm by 419 »
Got Ether?

 

Offline Ace

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Hey all you evolutionists
Quote
Originally posted by Kamikaze
Ooooh, ahhhhh.... the dogma aura illuminates the thread in an eerie glow...


You do know, that dogma's a *****. :nod:
Ace
Self-plagiarism is style.
-Alfred Hitchcock

 
Hey all you evolutionists
Once again, just when I was becoming happy about being an evolutionist, some christian orginazation wants to start *****ing about how the constitution of the country they live in dosent apply to them.  I can not stand it when this kind of bull**** get dredged up from the bottom of the 'couse of the moment' tank.  You would think, that after countless attempts at it, that these people would give up and let non-followers live their lives in peace.

Why is it that when you christians see somebody leading a happy non-christian life, you have to force your beliefs on us?  I am a happy evolutionist and I dont want 'the light of god' and I dont care about 'the fires of hell'.  I've got no problem letting others practice the beliefs that they want to, why dont you?

The christian church has been demonizing everything not conforming to their grand scheme of divinity since it was formed.  You all know this, believers and non believers, and yet nothing is done about it.  Why do you suppose that is?
Can the reason that we fear the unknown be that we know ourselves too well?       -The Outer Limits

<*)}}}><  HAPPY FISHIE!!

 

Offline Bobboau

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Hey all you evolutionists
<(((++<
  /\/\

ASCI evolved
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Offline phreak

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Hey all you evolutionists
:wtf:
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Offline Bobboau

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Hey all you evolutionists
thats what I was going for :)
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Offline phreak

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Hey all you evolutionists
well what the hell is it supposed to be?
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