[ZylonBane]

I never fail to find these "philosophy dictates reality" theories amusing.

[Stealth]

Originally posted by an0n
I just started watching it over again and I've come to my first new point of interest:

I now know what that robot was at the end, the one that carried Neo away.

It was the black guy from the train station. Ramakandra.

He's the "power-plant's systems manager for recycling operations". Which means it's his job to keep those 'liquify the dead' robots doing the right job(s). And since he's a big, powerful, middle-management type who lived in the city, the big-ass robot was probably his body.

oooh yeah.  good point.  i never really thought of that.

although wait a second, wasn't that Indian (Arab) guy from the station just a regular program?  programs don't operate the machines though, they only work inside the Matrix, don't the machines run themselves?

[karajorma]

He was a program from the machine city. Some programs fled the machine city to hide in the matrix. That's what he was doing with his daughter.

[übermetroid]

Originally posted by Stealth
oooh yeah.  good point.  i never really thought of that.

although wait a second, wasn't that Indian (Arab) guy from the station just a regular program?  programs don't operate the machines though, they only work inside the Matrix, don't the machines run themselves?

Well yes, but...  Remember his little girl had no job that is why she was smuggled into the Matrix?  And her mom and dad were not staying with her, she was going to live with the Oracle.  Remember, the Matrix is a world, one were both men and machines can connect to.

The junk dude just hacked in to the Matrix using the crazy subway dude's hacking methiod.  And the he dumped his little girl so she would not get shoved in the recycle bin in real life.

Edit, I now have over 100 posts!  YEA!!!  

[Stealth]

karajorma and ubermetroid:  good point.  i just watched that part again, and you're right.  that's weird though, it's the fact that machines could hide in the matrix that was one of the factors that messed up one of my previous "theories"

[an0n]

The Machines are probably not 'hiding' in it, as such. More like illegally networking to it.

I got the impression it was just Programs that were hiding there.

[phreak]

Ah ha!  So the matrix has to exist for the machines and humanity to interact peacefully.  The Architect and probably the Oracle have doubts wether the peace in the real world will last.

[ZylonBane]

Simply networking to the Matrix wouldn't be any sort of hiding place at all. The whole idea of rogue programs hiding in the Matrix is to get their executing code off systems controlled directly by the MCP. This reinforces the implication that the Matrix is somewhat of a sealed system.

As for the Machine/Program dichotomy... there's no logical reason to assume that a given program is irrevocably tied to a given piece of hardware. Revolutions established this with the machine "couple" Neo met.

[Stealth]

yeah.  now we're getting somewhere

[01010]

I had a thought today, when the Logos crashed in machine city, (if it had been possible) what would the outcome of the films had been if they had used the EMP rather than Neo going to see Deus Ex Machina?

[Sandwich]

I thought of that too, but I guess the limited range of the EMP would have made its effects minimal.

[Knight Templar]

Originally posted by 01010
I had a thought today, when the Logos crashed in machine city, (if it had been possible) what would the outcome of the films had been if they had used the EMP rather than Neo going to see Deus Ex Machina?

A better ending?

[ZylonBane]

Originally posted by 01010
I had a thought today, when the Logos crashed in machine city, (if it had been possible) what would the outcome of the films had been if they had used the EMP rather than Neo going to see Deus Ex Machina?

It would have knocked out the Machine city up to the radius of the EMP. Then Sentinels would have come and killed Neo.

[Stealth]

naaa i don't think that'd have worked.  the EMP has a limited range, so for them to be able to do anything, they'd have to be real close.  then, remember that the ship has to be completely shut down to charge/activate the EMP, and for the ship to be stopped, it would have to be vulnerable, and all those thousands of machines attacking it, it'd be vaporized before it even came to a complete standstill

[Knight Templar]

They're ship was ****ed at that point either way. If the ending was written around Neo EMPing the Central Machine Complex or whatever, he'd be dead by the end wether he did it or not. He could blow them up, but apparently he can only do that a little bit.

[an0n]

Originally posted by ZylonBane
Simply networking to the Matrix wouldn't be any sort of hiding place at all. The whole idea of rogue programs hiding in the Matrix is to get their executing code off systems controlled directly by the MCP. This reinforces the implication that the Matrix is somewhat of a sealed system.

As for the Machine/Program dichotomy... there's no logical reason to assume that a given program is irrevocably tied to a given piece of hardware. Revolutions established this with the machine "couple" Neo met.

I made a distinction between Programs and Machines for that very reason. (Programs merely being Matrix constructs and Machines being the AI out in the real-world moving **** around).

Machines wouldn't hide in the Matrix. They'd only link to it so they could do things like, as in the case of Ramakandra, hide their kids there. But they'd still be controlling a Machine body out in the real world. And while that body-grabber at the end of Revolutions may not have actually been Ramakandra, it'd at least be under his control as 'recycling operations' at the 'power plant' is basically a euphamism for mushing up Matrix-corpses into pink goo.

Anyway:

When a Machine controling Program had outlived their usefulness and had become obsolete, they'd get the order to switch control to another Program and return to be deleted. It'd be at this point that they'd say "**** that" and scurry off into the Matrix before anyone could stop them.

Hmmm. I'll have to watch the Architect's speech in Reloaded again, but maybe the Machines deciding not to be deleted is part of the whole chaos thingy he was on about.

[Knight Templar]

So the little girl would be the machines way of getting into the matrix world? And if that's right, then couldn't they have just killed Smith through her?

[an0n]

No, she was just a ****ty little program with no purpose.

To totally **** the Matrix over, they needed a combination of Neo's power and the root power of the Machine God.

[Knight Templar]

I figured they just anti-virused Smith and then got control of the matrix again. that or the whole balancing of the equation thing, meaning it has to be balanced all the time. So if neo goes, Smith would go.

[an0n]

The Machines can't control the Matrix. They don't have the permissions.

Only the Architect can do that.

And the Machines couldn't find the bodies that had been infected by Smith as, since Smith had removed his ear-piece (his connection to the Machines) they'd need to run one of them red-pill tracer things on him.

Smith was also operating outside the normal bounds of the Matrix with all sorts of firewalls running inside him to make sure no-one could screw with him.

When he took Neo, he let him past his defences but also wiped all his memory. The Machines then restored Neo somewhat (the first little jolt). They then poured massive amounts of code (maybe even the Machine-God itself) into Neo's super-powers and combined the Matrix-****ing powers of the One with the uber-Source-control of the Machine God. So now they had enough power to blast through the link between the Smiths and nuke them all with a code overload.


Not one of my more coherant explainations, but it'll do in the absence of any evidence to the contrary.