[mikhael]

Mmmmm. Joe Haldeman. Forever*. That man rocks.

Nice job on the bump maps, Venom. I honestly would have used geometry for that, since I lack skill at mapping. Is it just a bump map (it just effects the way the surface renders) or is it a displacement map (changes the geometry at the last moment before the render)?

[Nico]

just bump maps. I want to keep the polycount to a minimum, so a displacement map would ruin the idea, would be even better to have the details modeled actually. Plus honestly, I think it does look quite 3D to me, even those large round things on the forearms ( that's the area I had the most doubts, since it's fairly deep and complicated ).
Note that I also change some stuff on the meshes as I go through the mesh ( extruded some joints between the finger segments, for exemple, and the "head" really needs for detailling. I already have a very detailled TADS - the one I did for the sabre -, but it really has too many polys compared to the rest of the mecha ).

[mikhael]

yeah, without a dobut, Venom, the arm maps look EXCELLENT. Even just as bumps the detail comes through beautifully.

Why are you trying to keep the polycount low?

[Nico]

Coz my PC is quite low end, and before, I had real nightmares working on animated scenes with very high polys meshes ( for my oleon wars trailer, for exemple ), and i don't want to go through that again.

[mikhael]

Ah, I get it.

Does 3dsMax not let you use stand-in objects during the animation process? I know when I was working with my Beetle (half a million polies) I used a much lower poly standin for the rigging (3k poly, I think). Made things much saner.

Still, the final render does use the half million poly models, so the render takes for ever. Of course, I had the school render farm to work with then.

[Nico]

Yes, it does ( Xref objects and even scenes can be used ), but with my 900mhz, a simple scene with raytracing and stuff, sees its render time increase exponantialy with the polycount. I can't spend 90 hours of render for a 30 seconds sequence, sadly, but be sure I'd love to. A low poly mesh can't compare with a high poly one, no matter how many bump maps you throw on it .

[Flaser]

Actually Venom...er Nico they used the same suit as in Escaflowne or Gunbuster - you just didn't watch the whole show so far.
(It was visible in only the last episode!)

What I meant is that they controlled the movement and fought with the armslave using the whole suit - and it probably monitored head movement to control the arm slaves head, but to contol the equipment of the mecha - like radio, radar, ecm ect. they used voicecommand, 'casue they got all their hands full just controlling the AS.

BTW what version of Max are you running?

I have a 1.6 P4 process and would be willing to render for you - though uploading the avi may take just as much (unless you let me shrink it with DivX or Xvid).

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Nico
Yes, it does ( Xref objects and even scenes can be used ), but with my 900mhz, a simple scene with raytracing and stuff, sees its render time increase exponantialy with the polycount. I can't spend 90 hours of render for a 30 seconds sequence, sadly, but be sure I'd love to. A low poly mesh can't compare with a high poly one, no matter how many bump maps you throw on it .

Yeah, Max's scanline renderer isn't known for its speed or ability to handle large numbers of polys. Its time for you to build a second machine, so you can work on one and render on the other.

[icespeed]

im not sure i can contribute anything intelligent to this conversation, but id like to say two things anyway and then you can laugh at me.

the one in that last pic looks like he only has one leg. its just a perspective thing, i suppose.

question: this may take the whole point out of mechs, but since its all made up anyway, why dont you have a form fitting suit for the human and a radio transmitter of some sort beaming the movements the guy makes to the machine, which is actually out in the field? then if someone kills the machine, you get to keep your soldier. i suppose that'd be like robots, except not exactly.

[kasperl]

uhm, Nico, is there a way of making an exe from  certain scene ready to be rendered, so that you can send that exe to someone who as computer time left over, and that person can give you the animation?

[Stryke 9]

Yes. Networkers of the sort are a pain in the arse to make, much less get anyone to use, though.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Flaser
Actually Venom...er Nico they used the same suit as in Escaflowne or Gunbuster - you just didn't watch the whole show so far.
(It was visible in only the last episode!)

hey? I've seen the whole show, I've even seen fumoffu ( ok, you don't see the AS in it, buit you get my point
Bah, I'm watching the series again with a friend, so I'll pay attention next time.
I use max 5.0
Thanks for the render offer, but usually I render my videos as separated frames then I recompile them, uncompressed, and do my compositing with uncompressed videos in premiere, and then only do I compress the final animation.

Icespeed: yup, that's the perspective, my camera angle wasn't very smart: the ArmS is walking there, and the right leg is right behind the left one ( you can see the foot, still )
As for remote controliing, it's the same deal than with planes and all that stuff (well, to me, at least ):
1) there's always things that can make you lose contact ( static, magnetic interference, etc )
2) if you can remote-control the thing, what stops the enemy from using a more powerful emitter and turn your own weapon against you?
And no, I won't laugh at you, coz there's no reason to, but also mainly coz I've used up all my "maliciousness" yesterday on a friend of mine. Don't have any left

kasperl: see my answer to Flaser. If you don't have max5, nope, not possible.

Anyway, I'm not complaining, I live with it, it just forces me to optimize my meshes to stupid levels, which is not a bad thing, in the end.

[icespeed]

i suppose so. how about not sending any fighters out at all, but just randomly sending bursts of scrambling static at the other guys?

okay, that was an even stupider suggestion. forget it.

[kasperl]

and if i do have a "version" of max 5?

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Nico

As for remote controliing, it's the same deal than with planes and all that stuff (well, to me, at least ):
1) there's always things that can make you lose contact ( static, magnetic interference, etc )
2) if you can remote-control the thing, what stops the enemy from using a more powerful emitter and turn your own weapon against you?

1) Interference is a concern, yes. There are, however, ways around it. A broad spectrum approach could be used, as could directed point to point comms.

2) With reasonable levels of encryption, such as used for realtime sattelite communication and text message traffic in the military today, you would not have to worry about the enemy hijacking your gear. By the time they've cracked your encryption protocol, you'll have changed to a different protocol.

Of course, this is your work and world, so feel free to ignore everything I just said. Get back to work on the mech.

[Nico]

From a technical point of view, I suppose you're right but... ok, to make things short, wouldn't be as cool if there was no pilot in the thing, I hate remote controled things, they ruin the "chivalry spirit" of the whole thing

Didn't have the time to work on it today, only added the outer side hand bump map. inner side and fingers next, then legs, then feet ( altho I may redo the meshes completly first, I'm not too happy with them ). They I'll have to work a lot on the body before bump mapping it.
I dropped the gyro arm thing for the weapons, would be an IK nightmare to do, and the setup of the mech makes it kindda difficult to execute anyway. the gun support will just be lowered when needed, the gun picked up, then the support goes back to place, it won't stay and move with the gun anymore as I planed.
For now, I've planed 3 kinds of weapons ( I want to base them on real weapons, so I'll have to decide which country this ArmS is from first ):
1) the machine gun. I'll have to look at todays very large machineguns to adapt one. The obvious choice would be the Avenger, but it's a bit cliche, and I have to check its scale first, compared to the Hulk
2) Sniper rifle: well, basically, an adapted tank main gun, with smoke and sound supressor.
3) "shotgun": I completly made up that one, and the mesh is even done already ( tho a bit on the high poly side... ). Basically, you have fast firing versions of a hand gun, well, the Volcano would be a fast firing version of a shotgun. A gatling shooting very large area projectiles if you want. Of course, the rate of fire is nowhere near the one of a gatling, something around 2 or 3 shots a second probably. The shell works like a shotgun shell, it doesn't go, instead, it's spews lots of metal marbles. The weapon is designed  to supress mycoids groups at short range. Bah, to make short, it's just a cool looking, devastating big gatling

there, a pic:

I'll make the main "body" longer so it can be carried easily ( two-handed weapon ). Also, the ammunition cartridge ( the box underneath ), is really too small to be any realistic, I'll remove it, and ammos will be carried in the ArmS backpack, and fed to the gun via a chain ( same setup for all the weapons ). The current cartridge support thinguy will be used to dock the weapon to the right arm, and luckily, the two round things on it fits perfectly to the two round bits on the arms. Lucky
The weapon will be held up side down.

[icespeed]

how big will that be as compared to the mech?

[neo_hermes]

miniguns are a nice way to ruin the light infantry's day.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by icespeed
how big will that be as compared to the mech?

Venom pointed out that the two little round bits visible on the side there fit exactly into the two little round bits he's put on the sides of the arms. I'd say its pretty damned big compared to the mech itself. Like the size of a leg nearly.

[Nico]

yeah, something like that. And it'll be bigger for practical reasons ( the left hand can't reach the handle as it is now, I think ). I guess the Hulk will be required to put a knee down to use that gun. Hmm, no, I'll make up something on the feet, some claw, I think.
Oh, I like that idea actually, could have other uses.
But first I need to correct that rotation bug max just threw at me
"walks away, drawing plans in his head"