[Bobboau]

I don't see what the problem is here, this is just about exactly what I would expect from a random guncam clip from a war

yeah, what's the point here, it doesn't matter if they used a butter knife or a hellfire missle, they guys are dead, honestly given the choice I'd rather have heavier ammo used to take me out, I'd be itty bits before I knew what hit me, smaller weapons I would get slowly torn apart, alive longer == more pain (this is only valid if it is assumed the guy IS going to die).

now Apaches were built to fight tanks, they used the smallest weapon avalable to them when they saw some people unloading what to them looked like anti-arcraft weapons, it doesn't take a stratejic master to figure out what you'r going to do

but it's nice to see people giveing them the benifit of a doubt.

[neo_hermes]

moo

[Knight Templar]

I don't really see the point in calling it overkill either...

Were they supposed to see that there were only 3 guys, go home and find a smaller gun and come back? I'd think overkill would be if they started firing missles at the guys or called in backup...

[Sandwich]

Calling it overkill isn't the same as saying that they made a bad choice of weapons. It's simply saying that the objective could have been achieved with far less powerful weaponry.

The fact of the Apache not having anything less then the 30mm simply justifies its use as opposed to something less devastating. Nothing more, nothing less.


...unless you wanted the pilot to open the window and shoot at them with his sidearm...

[Bobboau]

well given that no other (less powerful) weapon was available, is it realy overkill?

just curius on relation of the defenition

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Rictor

I think its just the opposite. I think its great that this was made public, it gives us a glimpse into the actions of the US military, which would otherwise go totally unquestion. I don't mean this in a completely negative way. Its better to have public scrutiny than have none, regardless of who is right or wrong./B]

In that sense, yes... but the risk is always that this sort of thing becomes presented as entertainment, or a curiosity.  I don't think it was intended to be released - I'm not sure if that's even allowed under the Geneva convention - and i'm not sure there are many people able to objectively judge this sort of thing, given its very nature.

Originally posted by Rictor

As for the SAM, I don't really know. Its seems like a excuse made up after the fact. I'de have to see the full video to make a judgement. And even then, why did they finish off the wounded guy? They could have just as easily left him there, he was in no position to threaten their safety, and ground troops could have been called in to apprehend him...

Well, generally speaking it'd be risky to send in ground troops - there's the possibility the guy is holding a grenade or something.  Not to mention that it would divert resources from other areas, and that the nearest infantry unit could be tens of kilometers away.  There's also no real way ascertain how badly he was injured - the assumption would have to be made that, so long as the enemy is moving, they're a threat.

[SadisticSid]

I don't see what's so sick about it, it's not like you can tell whether the bits that are blown about the place are human flesh or ground or pieces of truck. In this way it's not much different from a bomb camera.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by SadisticSid
I don't see what's so sick about it, it's not like you can tell whether the bits that are blown about the place are human flesh or ground or pieces of truck. In this way it's not much different from a bomb camera.

Imagine it was someone you knew or were related to.... it's the principle of the thing.

[Fineus]

It's certainly voyeuristic...

[01010]

Almost pervy...

But no, to all the people that questioned me calling it overkill, look up what the word means please. I said nothing about whether or not I thought it was justified, just that using a cannon that's normally used against metal armour, against flesh and bone is a wee bit excessive.

And yes, I understand they had no other options available, like Mik said, I'd have done the same thing.

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by SadisticSid
I don't see what's so sick about it, it's not like you can tell whether the bits that are blown about the place are human flesh or ground or pieces of truck. In this way it's not much different from a bomb camera.

Actually.... If it's brighter than the surrounding ground in an IR shot, it's..... warmer. Which means that yes, it's..... flesh.

*runs*

[Knight Templar]

Originally posted by aldo_14


Imagine it was someone you knew or were related to.... it's the principle of the thing.

Yeah... boo hoo. That's what happens when you're in war with an enemy in your country and you carry something that appears to be an RPG around. Sure, it might be 'shocking' to see infared blobs of people get hit by explosive rounds, spraying body matter all o'er the place, but really, shouldn't video games and moves have dessensitised you guys to this by now?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Knight Templar


Yeah... boo hoo. That's what happens when you're in war with an enemy in your country and you carry something that appears to be an RPG around. Sure, it might be 'shocking' to see infared blobs of people get hit by explosive rounds, spraying body matter all o'er the place, but really, shouldn't video games and moves have dessensitised you guys to this by now?

one minute it's IR film from a gunship, next it's a 3 hour video of soldiers being tortured and mutlilated released by the enemy.

For example.

[Flipside]

I hope and I pray that Computer Games don't desensitise me to be honest, because that would mean I'd be unable to tell the difference between fantasy and reality, and then I'd really be in trouble

[01010]

I've played games all my life and took great pleasure out of games like Carmageddon and killing people randomly in Vice City, watched countless violent movies even under 18 (shock) and have listened to enough violent and satanic music to make me next in line for the dark throne itself.

I feel terrible for watching three peoples lives end.

[Knight Templar]

Right, probably not best use of sarcasm ever.. meh.

And Aldo: That's a good point, but somehow I get the feeling this clip wasn't really endorsed or realised on purpose. Same with the other one from the gunship. how they got to media sources beats me though..

[01010]

I was aware it was sarcasm.

Just making a point in general that there are people who think that all people who play games are violent nutjobs who just need a right reason to nuke their school or something.

I don't see how an occupation can make you any less human really but then I tend not to think like stupid people.

[Flipside]

<----- Grew up in single parent family, has seen Childs play 3 and still hasn't murdered anyone.

Yep, nothing taken personally here, just hope it never happens

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by 01010
...violent nutjobs who just need a right reason to nuke their school or something.

If one has the right reason, then what's the problem?

[01010]

Originally posted by Sandwich


If one has the right reason, then what's the problem?

Ah, touche.