[Star Dragon]

The "Butt" Pirates of Silicon Valley? The History of Bill Gates, Windows and Apple computer... A most interesting viewing...

[Stealth]

Kazan:  As much as I agree with you, what Zarax is saying is true... All of us here, no matter how much we hate Microsoft/Windows/etc. all use Windows... why?  Because it's easy to use, it's easy to find support for, it's compatibility is unmatched, it is the most widely used operating system in the world, and as much as we all hate it, we can't deny it.

Windows XP Professional was the first operating system I actually legally went out and  bought, and paid for... because it's an operating system that's worth registering properly to take advantages of its service packs and update modules.  It's an extremely powerful operating system, and while it may not be as stable as a Unix system, it's the most stable Microsoft operating system yet.

[Kazan]

the only reason i use windows is so i can compile my apps so you people can use them and also i can check the compatability


if you think windows XP was worth your money you didn't do much research into the underlying security flaws, the problems with advanced configuration (as in it doesn't let you), etc

Extremely powerful when compared to what? A fisher price toy?

[Zarax]

Kazan, i know you hate me...
But you are making out a theology question from a tech one...
The core of all the question for me is not that i lick MS ass or whatever you say, but it's the fact that i just don't find viable the proposed alternatives, or if they are viable then the costs outweighs the benefits...
For me it's just way better to improve and build upon MS stuff than trying to do everything from scratch, plus the fact that while open source has its good points i don't believe in free software.

[Kazan]

to accuse me of creating a theology out of a tech question would be like the pot calling the snowball black

you consider the alternatives and then _post_ your justifications for why: Linux, BSD, Solaris, OSX, AIX, etc are not "viable" alternatives or why their TCO is greater -- cite your sources.  

You don't believe in free software? Rotfl - that explains a lot.  I will hate to see you in twenty years when _ALL_ software is free and the money is made selling support.  You're either going to be A) jobless, B) grudgingly working opensource support or C) have gotten a clue


When did you get your computer science degree? (year), Where? How much did it cost you?

[Odyssey]

[color=cc9900]Zarax: Please outline the problems you have in switching to Linux or another alternative OS, and we'll try to help.[/color]

[Kazan]

Odyssey: It's Free, read his post - he doesn't believe in free software

[Odyssey]

[color=cc9900]No, but he also mentions the 'cost' of switching, implying some kind of difficulty involved.[/color]

[Fineus]

The fact that a majority of software is written for Windows at this stage - the average system user does not posess the knowlege or skill to make such a switch smoothly without taking time out to learn about the new system and equip themselves with what is necessary. Windows is intuitive in that respect and that it has more (accessable) support than any other OS on the planet.

The software may be free, the time taken to learn how to use it at its best is not - at least not to the average user.

[Odyssey]

[color=cc9900]I was not, however, expecting Zarax to consider himself an 'average user'.[/color]

[Zarax]

I don't want to switch anywhere, that's the "problem" for you.
There is a lot of people that are happy with Windows and it does everything they needs.
And your vision of money made through selling support just give me the shivers...
That would put professionals programmers out of service, and all the support stuff will be in third world countries because programmers are cheaper there...
Don't tell that theory around guys or your initiative will find a lot more enemies than you expect...
There are lots of ways to open source, but this one doesn't seem something good to me...

[Kazan]

people over and over state "the majority" which nobody has yet been able to prove - the majority of _HOME_ software --- but you're going to find more software bundled with a linux distro than most windows users ever need

doesn't take time how to learn the GUI in linux - it's a GUI -- my girlfriend who barely knows anything about computers switched without problem. -- Soon as _Decent_ GUI from end for YUM get's written (wont be long) then once you install the first time you'll never need the CD again.


On the Fedora CDs [that i can htink of, any other software and you just need to ask]
OpenOffice [which is M$ Office compatable]
Mozilla
a Video player [not sure which one, didn't installed it because I always compiled my own Xine for added performance]
Gaim [trillian is a win32 gaim clone]
CD Burning Software, DVD Authoring and Burning Software

thats what i can think of in a few seconds - feel free to ask about the presence of others.

[TrashMan]

Originally posted by pyro-manic
DG, that's f***ing awesome! I wants it!

Me too!

[Zarax]

The costs of switching aren't the efforts required for the users, but the lose of compatibility for a lot of apps, the need of rewriting tons of code and so on...
That will destroy what has been so painfully obtained in the eighties...
Your one is a pretty chaotic vision guys...
Not even a near commie like me would like it...
But here's your future:
Day 1
Linux people: "We destroyed M$ yesss!"

Day 2
5 Corps make 90% of commercial versions of it, their lawyers successfully have GPL declared scrap and not even antitrust would help this time...

[Kazan]

Originally posted by Zarax
I don't want to switch anywhere, that's the "problem" for you.

You're dodging the issue - you claimed to have considered the alternatives - explain your reasoning or admit that you haven't considered them

Originally posted by Zarax
There is a lot of people that are happy with Windows and it does everything they needs.

Irrevelant to the current discussion

Originally posted by Zarax
And your vision of money made through selling support just give me the shivers...

Only because you don't understand it

Originally posted by Zarax
That would put professionals programmers out of service, and all the support stuff will be in third world countries because programmers are cheaper there...

WRONG - DEAD WRONG -- Each company has a small group of programmers that they pay to contribute to the projects.  Each company puts some value into the project - each company get's the value of their contribution combined with the value of all the other companies contributions back out.  AMAZING concept - cooperation for profit because it lowers each companies TCO.

when I say "All" software will be free I should qualify that as all essential software - operating systems, office suites, productivity tools, etc.  

Games will still cost $ (even if the software at the core is free, which doesn't have to be the case -- the content is not).

Each software firm will have some internal software they don't wish to release (security routines for banks, etc) and programmers will be needed there.


I've been programming for 10 years and I am pursuing a degree and plan to be a professional programmer --- this doesn't scare me one little bit because I understand the nature of the beast.

Originally posted by Zarax
Don't tell that theory around guys or your initiative will find a lot more enemies than you expect...

'around guys'? WTF does that mean?  our 'initiative'?  There are already millions of programmers on the bandwagon with us.  If you actually poked your head out of the microsoft community you will find most of the rest of the software community is extremely hostile to microsoft - and the hostility increases with "loftiness" of the person/group.  

Originally posted by Zarax
There are lots of ways to open source, but this one doesn't seem something good to me...

Your statement does not make sense

[Fineus]

Thats all fine Kazan, but thats the first time I ever learnt that. Which rather implies that Linux' fame gets around by word of mouth alone. The ability to enter into the Linux market must be soley the users decision - which results in the fact that while it might well be better, it relies soley on its users to advertise its existance.

As for the majority of which I spoke earlier - well - of all my years on any computer system anywhere - I've not yet touched a Linux based system... and that includes the homes of myself and others - businesses and offices - schools - you get the idea. Granted that doesn't mean that nobody out there uses it, but it does mean that its sphere of influence has avoided me - and I do take an interest in these things as a user. If I could try it, I would.

[Zarax]

Oh, my god...
I should really pass this one around...
There is plenty of people that is truly happy by daily dealing with that kind of businesses...
Too bad that they usually defines it as "bottomless money pit".

[Kazan]

Originally posted by Zarax
The costs of switching aren't the efforts required for the users, but the lose of compatibility for a lot of apps, the need of rewriting tons of code and so on...

Start naming applications and I'll start naming their already written [and often file format compatable] replacements for unix-like operating systems (that would be for: Linux, Solaris, Unix, OSX, BSD]

Originally posted by Zarax
That will destroy what has been so painfully obtained in the eighties...

What did we so "painfully obtain" in the 80s

Originally posted by Zarax
Your one is a pretty chaotic vision guys...

Chaotic? according to you whom doesn't understand it because you're unable to even picturing a paradigm shift

Originally posted by Zarax
Not even a near commie like me would like it...

Riiiight -- again an irrelevant comment

Originally posted by Zarax
But here's your future:
Day 1
Linux people: "We destroyed M$ yesss!"

Day 2
5 Corps make 90% of commercial versions of it, their lawyers successfully have GPL declared scrap and not even antitrust would help this time...

HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ROTFLMAOPMP

GPL declared scrap... justify your reason for even thinking the GPL could be declared invalid.  If you try and spout of "IT's never been tested in court" crap I'll start laughing any harder - since if you ask any real laywer that deals with licenses like that they're answer "Contest the GPL in court? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? You'll loose miserably!"

[aldo_14]

This argument is going to go round, and round, and round, and round.........

Point is, no-ones is going to be convinced to change their mind here, everyone pretty much has decided which side of the fence they sit on.

[Kazan]

aldo_14: very true, but Zarax may realize that he cannot make any statement that i can destroy by citing the facts