[Blaise Russel]

This thread is funny, yet quite tragic as well.

It's not as big as other threads I've seen, though. I've seen 30-pagers - this simply doesn't compare.

Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I haven't decided yet.



Just one thing I ought to point out, for all those screaming 'they're destroying our society!'

Consider the following options.

A) Heterosexual marriages ONLY
B) Heterosexual and homosexual marriages
C) Homosexual marriages ONLY

Now think. Which one is truly a threat to your values? Which one actually outlaws your beliefs? Which one oppresses you, makes you unable to practise what you preach and marry a member of the opposite sex? A, B or C?

Now, which one are homosexuals pushing for? A, B or C?

Think about it.

[Liberator]

There you people go tossing out the hate card.  I don't hate homosexuals, quite the contrary, I feel pity for them, I would help them if I knew how.  

It's just like saying a portion of the black community is a bunch of thugs and lowlifes who prey on they're brothers through gangs and drugs.

It sounds racist, but it's not.  I wish I knew an easy soloution.

For the record, condom's can't prevent the spread of HIV, they're not even an effective contraconceptive.  In fact, they probably help spread it by promoting promiscuity.

The only perfect way to not spread HIV is for infected persons to abstain from sexual contact in any way and not donate blood.

[aldo_14]

Any barrier contraceptive has an impact on preventing the spread of HIV, by blocking fluid transfer.

[Nico]

woah, that's the most ridiculous post I've ever read, congrats, lib.

fact 1) they couldn't care less about your pity. Those who are open to it, well, are happy being homosexual. I guess they'd pity you for not knowing how it feels to... hmm, not gonna get there, even to offend you.

fact 2) it sounds racist and it damn is. there's no more low livfes in the black community than in any other community.

fact 3)  when used correctly and 100% of the time, condoms ARE efficient. pb is, nobody really respect that. Promoting promiscuity? lol.

last fact 4) Didn't it occur to you that the use of condoms to prevent HIV and others froom spreading was directed to those not aware that they are infected? If someone told me I had to explain that, I wouldn't have believed him.

[diamondgeezer]

Lib... you pity homosexuals? You want to cure them?

You've just set a new standard with those two.

[Liberator]

But the percentage there they are successful is offset by the increase of overall risky behavior.  

The primary benefit of monogamous relations between one man and one woman after they are wed is the only way to guarantee that neither will spread any sort of STD.

I mean really, think about it.  Use your noggin for something other than life-support and flappin your gums.

 I myself haven't had sex yet.  What is are the percentages that I'll transmit an STD to my future wife on our Wedding Night?

[diamondgeezer]

Somewhere in the region of the two gay men who've carefully practiced safe sex all their lives and have never had other partners, on the night of their wedding

[Flipside]

It's not about STD's, quite frankly, I have to teach sexual health to a bunch of heterosexual teenagers, and theres nothing that Gays can get that Hetero's can't get, often more easily. Also, it is perfectly possible to get an STD even if you've never slept with someone before, how do the think they got started in the first place?
As for pitying gays, well, lucky you, I have a couple of gay friends who have been happily together monogomously for 15 years, which is longer than most of my hetero friends.
It seems to me that there is so much being said here against gays in ignorance and misinformation it is actually quite sickening, and the moment one argument is disproved (like this whole moronic bestiality thing) another equally ridiculous one pops up to take it's place.
I'm sick of seeing homosexuals alloweed to contribute to art, science, music, culture, fashion etc, and yet being treated like a sub-race, depite everything they've done. Gays fought in the civil war, the world wars, for your freedom, and this is the freedom they fought for? I am sure they pity you, for never taking the time to learn understanding or tolerance in this matter.

You are entitled to have your point of view, but please take the time to research it, because throwing accusations without backup here, or resorting to 'morals' will get you flamed from the top down. In the certain parts of the Middle East, it is 'Morals' to kill an unmarried mother, and not do a thing to the Father, in Ancient Japan, it was 'Morals' to kill someone for not bowing low enough to suit your rank etc. So Morals are far far too transient to base anything on.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Flipside
It's not about STD's, quite frankly, I have to teach sexual health to a bunch of heterosexual teenagers, and theres nothing that Gays can get that Hetero's can't get, often more easily. Also, it is perfectly possible to get an STD even if you've never slept with someone before, how do the think they got started in the first place?
As for pitying gays, well, lucky you, I have a couple of gay friends who have been happily together monogomously for 15 years, which is longer than most of my hetero friends.
It seems to me that there is so much being said here against gays in ignorance and misinformation it is actually quite sickening, and the moment one argument is disproved (like this whole moronic bestiality thing) another equally ridiculous one pops up to take it's place.
I'm sick of seeing homosexuals alloweed to contribute to art, science, music, culture, fashion etc, and yet being treated like a sub-race, depite everything they've done. Gays fought in the civil war, the world wars, for your freedom, and this is the freedom they fought for? I am sure they pity you, for never taking the time to learn understanding or tolerance in this matter.

You are entitled to have your point of view, but please take the time to research it, because throwing accusations without backup here, or resorting to 'morals' will get you flamed from the top down. In the certain parts of the Middle East, it is 'Morals' to kill an unmarried mother, and not do a thing to the Father, in Ancient Japan, it was 'Morals' to kill someone for not bowing low enough to suit your rank etc. So Morals are far far too transient to base anything on.

and to add to this......

Oh, Liberator - one of the principle architects of this 'ere magic box wot you be using - was a man named Alan Turing.  A genius mathematician who worked at Bletchly Park in WW2, developing the 'Colossus' code breaker - the first computer -  and defining the 'Turing machine' and basic theories and tests for future AI.

Guess what?  He was gay.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Liberator
For the record, condom's can't prevent the spread of HIV, they're not even an effective contraconceptive.  In fact, they probably help spread it by promoting promiscuity.

Oh dear. You really don't know anything about anything to do with this subject do you?

It is a scientifically proven fact that condoms cut down the rate of infection from HIV drastically if used correctly. Sure they aren't as effective as abstinence but they are very effective.  Of course scientifically proven facts probably mean nothing to a creationist
  The majority of HIV infections are [Drum roll] amongst people not using condoms. Who would have thought that!

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Liberator

It's just like saying a portion of the black community is a bunch of thugs and lowlifes who prey on they're brothers through gangs and drugs.

It sounds racist, but it's not.  I wish I knew an easy soloution.

Actually, yeah, that is racist.

For the record, condom's can't prevent the spread of HIV, they're not even an effective contraconceptive.  In fact, they probably help spread it by promoting promiscuity.

Someone has been listening to conservative propaganda without looking at scientific data. Condoms, properly used, are a better than 99% effective means of contraception AND barrier to fluid transferred diseases. My wife and I use condoms every time we make love in order to prevent conception (what else does contraceptive mean?). Interestingly, she's never gotten pregnant. Not once, in the 12yrs we've been a couple. You don't get a much better record than that: 100% efficacy (so far).
If you believe are not an effective contraceptive, you're in direct denial of reality.

I have to say though, condoms do not promote 'promiscuity'. That would be like claiming that cough drops promote coughs, or that bandages promote bleeding.

The only perfect way to not spread HIV is for infected persons to abstain from sexual contact in any way and not donate blood.

So sharing needles is okay--because its not in your 'perfect way'. Oh, and you couldn't possible get HIV from getting bathed in an infected man's blood in an emergency room situation. My mother works in a hospital, and indeed, one of the nurses was infected with HIV because she managed to get cut by a patient who, in a pain induced haze, pulled a knife on her while she was treating the massive trauma induced by the gunshots in his legs and belly. He was infected and now so is she. Notice: no sex, no donation of blood. Be careful about using the word 'perfect'.

Lets take thse two things further and address your third point, which I forgot to paste in here: I engaged in premarital sex. Both with my wife and other people. Because I am reasonably well educated, I knew to use contraception to mitigate the possible price of my pleasure. Because of this, at 30, I am both disease and child free. There was zero chance of me passing anything to my wife in the marriage bed (or any of the other beds we shared before we were married).

[Nico]

Originally posted by mikhael
My wife and I use condoms every time we make love in order to prevent conception (what else does contraceptive mean?). Interestingly, she's never gotten pregnant. Not once, in the 12yrs we've been a couple. You don't get a much better record than that: 100% efficacy (so far).[...]Because of this, at 30, I am both disease and child free.

Maybe, tho, after 12 years, and at 30, it would be time to get rid of the hat, no?
Afraid of being a father?
And if you tell me I'm sticking my nose where I shouldn't and this doesn't concern me in any way, well, darn you, you're perfectly right

[Kazan]

Originally posted by Liberator
There you people go tossing out the hate card.  I don't hate homosexuals, quite the contrary, I feel pity for them, I would help them if I knew how.  

Refusing them their human rights is hatred and bigotry whether you admit it or not

You blantantly ignored a fact i posted earlier so let me get your attention with it this time

Science has shown a genetic basis for homosexuality these people are BORN that way

You continue to hate monger by denying this fundamental fact and saying that it's 100% psychological when it is not.

Originally posted by Liberator
It's just like saying a portion of the black community is a bunch of thugs and lowlifes who prey on they're brothers through gangs and drugs.

Just like a portion of the white community is

Originally posted by Liberator
It sounds racist, but it's not.  I wish I knew an easy soloution.

Shut your mouth?

Originally posted by Liberator
For the record, condom's can't prevent the spread of HIV, they're not even an effective contraconceptive.  In fact, they probably help spread it by promoting promiscuity.

ROTFLMAOPMP

Who fed you that load of crap? Your MINISTER? Condoms are nearly 99.99% effective and their effectiveness is only dimished by the occasional breakage.  

IT is also a misconception to think they promote primiscuity - NAS approved and peer reviewed studies show that they had no such effect, and that they decrease the rate of STD transmission immensely

Before you try and "teach us" you need to get your fact's straight.  

Originally posted by Liberator
The only perfect way to not spread HIV is for infected persons to abstain from sexual contact in any way and not donate blood.

I will not debate this statement because this statement is 100% true - the only 100% effective way to prevent STD transmission is abstitance - this is true. However condoms are 99.99% effective in barring the transmission of STDs and preventing inpregnation.   This does not mean you shouldn't tell people they alternatives and the ways to protect themselves if they don't chose this option.  Ignorance is the greatest danger ever to face our species and especially when it comes to sexually transmitteded diseases.  We are the only developed nation which has areas in which abstinance only education is practice and out of those developed nations we have the highest teenage pregnancy rate.

If you were to map the US in terms of sex education and then in terms of teen pregnancy rate you will find that where sex education is the worst [least informing, closest to being A-Only] you will find that the teen pregnancy rate increases dramatically where A-Only [lack-of-]Education is practiced

If you then map out STD contraction probability you will see it also correclates to the lack of quality in sex education - with the highest probability of transmission being in the same places that practice A-Only [lack-of-]education.

[edit forgot to address the even more ludacris claim]

SECOND Donoated blood is screened and tested for an immense number of pathogens and other contaiminants

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Nico
Maybe, tho, after 12 years, and at 30, it would be time to get rid of the hat, no?
Afraid of being a father?

There's a lot of ways I can answer that.
[list=a]

• Yes, I'm afraid of being a father. My children would be raised in a world that included people like Bush.
• Yes, I'm afraid of being a father. My father wasn't so great and I don't want to be like him.
• Yes, I'm afraid of being a father. I don't have much patience for children. I think they're the worst form of sexually transmitted disease.
• Yes, I'm afraid of being a father. I don't want to have to explain to my children that some people hate them because of the color of their skin, their religious views, their sexual orientation, etc.
• Nah, I'm not afraid of being a father. Pregnancy would really mess up my sex life though.

Pick whichever one you like the best.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Kazan
Science has shown a genetic basis for homosexuality these people are BORN that way

You continue to hate monger by denying this fundamental fact and saying that it's 100% psychological when it is not.

That's so true that ( F34r ), EVERYBODY has latent homosexual tendancies.
The shock

[Nico]

Originally posted by mikhael

There's a lot of ways I can answer that.
[list=a]

• Yes, I'm afraid of being a father. My children would be raised in a world that included people like Bush.
• Yes, I'm afraid of being a father. My father wasn't so great and I don't want to be like him.
• Yes, I'm afraid of being a father. I don't have much patience for children. I think they're the worst form of sexually transmitted disease.
• Yes, I'm afraid of being a father. I don't want to have to explain to my children that some people hate them because of the color of their skin, their religious views, their sexual orientation, etc.
• Nah, I'm not afraid of being a father. Pregnancy would really mess up my sex life though.

Pick whichever one you like the best.

Meh, you're just being a coward :p You won't know until you try ;) ( that smiley is placed here especially coz I know that in this context, it can be very irritating :p -  prefer this discussion to the original one, so sue me ;) )
And in truth, I wanna have little Mikhaels so my childs can take the legacy of our arguments and make them go forth for generations to come :D

[Kazan]

Originally posted by Nico


That's so true that ( F34r ), EVERYBODY has latent homosexual tendancies.
The shock

not everyone carries the gene

-----

hey mik, i think you'd make a much better father than a great many people - especially liberator and deepspace9er.

You children would grow up in a house where rationality andcompassion are valued above faith and hatred, where understanding is fostered.

Despite your fathers mistakes you have turned out well, and I think you are not doomed to reapated his mistakes

[Flipside]

< 31 and not a father?

Reason f)

I'm the one who goes to work and grafts all day for my money, and Sharon grafts all day for hers and we will both be damned if we have enough to spend on another member to the family

Well, it's honest

[Liberator]

Links, I need links people

I mean if your not going to take my word, why should I take yours.  Bear in mind I want multiple sources, not one study from 15 years ago.

@Nico
Why is my statement racist?  Because I used the qualifier Black?  I could have just as easily said French or German or American and it would have been just as true.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Nico
Meh, you're just being a coward You won't know until you try ( that smiley is placed here especially coz I know that in this context, it can be very irritating -  prefer this discussion to the original one, so sue me )
And in truth, I wanna have little Mikhaels so my childs can take the legacy of our arguments and make them go forth for generations to come

Okay:

f. we're not having children until we move back to Australia because of the better health care. We use condoms for now, becuase hormone based contraceptives affect her strongly, either by removing her libido, or by giving her mood swings that make our relationship something akin to war zone. Further, I don't want to raise my children in the American South, where they might fall pray to the children of christian evangelicals and christian fundamentalists. If my children are going to be instilled with any religious ideas or ideals, they will be Catholic.

And they'll be trained to debate from an early age.