[Jiggyhound]

As for alternate feuls sources, the japanese are developing the feul cell technology which runs off hydrogen ions, basically meaning processed seawater can be used as a feul. Ive only seen this work in a car, and it looked pretty cool. Seemed to handle similar distances and some what lower, but high speeds well.

And then theres fusion power. God knows when the goverments gonna pull its finger out of its arse and put much more research into this, but apparently a bunch of breakthroughs have been made in the past few years. It just might end up costing more with all those research and development costs though, even though it is also supposed to run on seawater.

[Liberator]

The problem with any hydrogen centric fuel source is it requires a large source of electricity for the processing of water for hydrogen.  The largest source of electricity in the world currently are Oil-fired power plants, so you aren't removing the oil from the equation, only the location where it factors in.

[Flipside]

What concerns me is that it may be too little too late. We have maybe 30-40 years now to effectively find a new power source, replace all our oil and coal and gas based ones, of which there are a HELL of a lot, and alter all vehicles, not just cars, but aircraft, boats, anything that uses an engine. The easiest steps are the cars, 30-40 years should be long enough to just stop making one kind and start making the other, however, replacing/refitting all oil & gas power stations in the world, I would say, is impossible in that time.
There ARE going to be countries left entirely without power, I'm pretty sure of that, not the rich ones, of course.

[Liberator]

You are forgetting Nuclear power sources.  If the weak-willed Enviromentalist Wackos will pull their collective heads out of their asses, they would realize that Nuclear power is actually very safe and produces a minimal amount of byproduct.  Granted that byproduct is leathal but there are ways to get rid of it, besides burying it.

[Flipside]

Yes, but Nuclear Power is actually pretty rare, and building a Nuclear station would be vastly expensive. Besides, Uranium isn't Americas' favourite substance to see bouncing around the third world right now

[Grey Wolf]

Yes, nuclear is good. No, not all enviromentalists are wackos or weak willed. Yes, that was off topic, as we were talking about such things as cars, plains, and ships, and only vehicles at least the size of a nuclear submarine could hold a military grade nuclear reactor, which is far smaller than the commercial grade nuclear reactors. Also, I sincerely doubt the government would let common people power their cars with nuclear reactors even if it was feasible.

[Hunter]

Cough President Clark cough Nightwatch cough Ministry of Peace sigh cough Ministry of Truth

Anyone following?

[Grey Wolf]

1984?

[Flipside]

hehehehe Yep, but no Minbari to save our butts this time

[Zuljin]

Originally posted by Flipside
hehehehe Yep, but no Minbari to save our butts this time

yet, you mean

[Rictor]

Liberator, why would you think that people concerned with the environment are wackos? Isn't it better to care than not to? I mean, the figures are right there, and they're backed up by a great many scientists. Oil is not going to last forever, and even if it did, its wreaking havoc with the planet. 50 years down the road, I don't want my grandkids dieing at age 15 due to cancer or breathing air thats about as pure as the crap that comes out of you exhaust pipe.

I can't say I'm personally very knowledgeable in alternative energy methods, but they do indeed seem to be slow to catch on. Ofcourse, this has nothing to do with the oil industry. Nope, not a thing.

The trouble is, plastic is also an oil based product. So even if we were to simply stop using oil as a fuel, we would still have plastics to conend with.

[Liberator]

They are wacko bacause they don't actually care about the enviroment as much as they would lead you to beleive.  They use it as an means to power.  I don't don't delude myself into believe that humanity is capable of destroying the enviroment, damaging yes, but not destroying.  To do so is a grandiose power trip.

Good stewardship is all that is requied.  The "Third World" needs to be educated in and assisted in implementing modern agricultural techniques.  I mean America's agricultural output alone could feed half the world if it didn't sit in warehouses and docks rotting.

[Grey Wolf]

We easily have the capability to destroy the entire biosphere. Two words: Strategic Arsenal. Also known as nuclear weaponry.

Even without using nuclear weaponry, we're dumping massive amounts of toxins into the system. Do you consider it normal for eating fish to cause people to become poisoned by mercury?

[Rictor]

The only want power

Power to do what? They have no real power, and even if they did its would only be the power to be consulted in matters of environmental policy. Its not like they're getting rich off it. So again I ask, power to do what? Obviously, if they want to have the power to influence environmental policy, they must care for the environment, so there goes that arguement.

We can't destroy the environment, only damage it.

Depends on your definition. If you're thinking in absolute terms, the total destruction of the environment is equal to the destruction of the Earth. Obviously, thats not going to happen any time soon. But if you don't think that we can make the Earth a living hell, you are sadly mistaken.

Just look at any one of the problems facing us today.

-Pollution, which leads to highly increased risk of cancer. Cancer, as you may or may not know, kills people.

-Rampant logging, which eliminates trees and fails to plant new ones. In case you are not aware, we need trees because they convert carbon dioxide into oxygen. Without trees, humanity can not survive.

-Global warming. Cold areas get colder, warm ones get warmer. Humans need moderate climates in which to live. If Canada gets much colder or Florida much warmer, they're going to be uninhabitable.The ice caps are melting, which means that in a century or so, costal cities are going bye bye.

-We are quickly running out of oil. We use oil in pretty much everything. Plastics are made from oil, oil is used to power your car. I'm sure it doesn't bother you, you live in America and are thus reliatively wealthy. But oil shortages are seriously going to affect poorer countries. With America using 25% of the world's energy, your (your as in the U.S's) overconsumption will directly lead to their misery. Also, oil used in combustion (cars) produces copious amount of pollution. See #1.

Can we outright destroy the Earth? Hell no. Nothing short of a few dozen nukes can do that. Can we make it virtually uninhabitable and kill off many millions if not billions of people. Sure can, just watch us.

The Third World needs to be educated

Eh? Didn't you just say that half of America's agricultural output is rotting in warehouses? What does that have to do with the third world. The International Monetary Fond, thr World Bank and the World Trade Organization are working very, very hard to keep the Third World from every getting out of the gutter. Why do you think they're so poor to begin with? They work harder and for less money than anyone in America. So shouldn't they be richer, or atleast on a level comparable to the First World?

Or do you believe that the IMF only wants to help the poor starving Africans and shower them with kisses and rainbows? For every billion in foreign aid that the Third World gets, they pay back double in cheap labour, tax havens and deregulation.

[Liberator]

You hate me don't you?

[Rictor]

Confucious says: I hate you as much as you hate me.

And if that isn't a satisfactory answer, than no, I don't.

[mikhael]

Go get 'em Rictor. Save me the trouble.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Rictor
Confucious says: I hate you as much as you hate me.

That's crazy how many things people make the poor folk say.
I have a nice one from him:
"The man who drops his watch in the toilets will have a ****ty time."

[Bobboau]

chineese don't use the word 'the'

"man who drops his watch in toilets will have a ****ty time."

[kasperl]

neither does latin, so i don;t  get all the idiotic translations.

and ancient greek only used "the" half of the time, IIRC.