Author Topic: Man beheaded in response to US prison ordeal...  (Read 13342 times)

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Offline Rictor

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Man beheaded in response to US prison ordeal...
Quote
Originally posted by Flipside
So this is still about 'who did it first and who did it most'?


I understand where you're coming from, but as much as I'de like them too, parts the world is not going to stop attacking other parts of the world just cause its the right thing to do. Until that time, I have to keep track of "who did what and to whom", becuase nations have to be accountable.

One thing that I can't stand is hypocrites. I just can't let it go, when Liberator or ionia or whoever says these guys are beasts and barbarians, but the US has done much worse. If everyone just takes it lieing down, there is no pressure to the change murderous polcies. How mant times can you forgive and forget before you just can't do it anymore?

Thats like everytime the schoolyard bully beats up some kid for his lunch money, you say "well, we can't play the blame game, its all in the past". And the next time and the next time etc. Sure, its absurd to hold people accountable for things that happened centuries ago, but at least for the Spanish Inquisition you can say "well, that was another time, people wouldn't support that today", and you'de be right. But I doubt that US government's stance of foreign policy has changed from yesterday, so its not a different world, a different time, a different people.

Hope that makes some sort of sense.

 

Offline mikhael

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Man beheaded in response to US prison ordeal...
Its always, "The US has done much worse".  We've got to keep score, so we can make sure America is held accountable.


Wheeeeeee!


I thought you were going to shut up and let me make your statements for you?
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Offline Flipside

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It does make sense Rictor, I guess I just get annoyed, I suspect that the Spanish Inquisition, apart from a few sick people, actually knew at some level that what they were doing was morally 'wrong'. The same situation occurs here, Any American soldier that tortures/beats a prisoner, any American seargent that orders the torture/beats of prisoners, any American senator who knowingly passed orders to torture/beat these people did so knowing it was morally the wrong thing to do. Equally so, any Iraqi who tortures and mrders an American, any Iraqi leader who orders the torture or murder of an American etc is also doing so fully aware that what he is doing is morally wrong.

As Setekh said earlier, the creation of something in the name of 'Good' will all too often get twisted, good intention by good intention into something terrible. This is as true of Religion as of countries, if not, more so, since Religions have a larger common denominator, and a focus of manipulation already available.

I suppose I should remember the Pratchett Rule more often :-

The IQ of a mass of people = The IQ of it's stupidest member / 2

I suppose I just feel utterly frustrated at the supidity of it all, the invasion, the occupation, the retalliation, the counter-attack, the pre-emptive strikes etc etc etc So the roll-call goes for both sides. It looks utterly moronic, stupid and pointless, with people of all colours and religions being killed, in my opinion, over animals that themselves died millions of years ago. Death for death.

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« Last Edit: May 13, 2004, 04:46:25 pm by 394 »

 

Offline mikhael

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I like the alternate formulation of that rule, Flipside:
"The IQ of a group is inversely proportional to the number of people in the group."
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Offline Ace

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Quote
Originally posted by Flipside
It does make sense Rictor, I guess I just get annoyed, I suspect that the Spanish Inquisition, apart from a few sick people, actually knew at some level that what they were doing was morally 'wrong'.


I don't think the average person involved in the Inquisition believed what they were doing was wrong anymore than a neo-conservative in the US feels that persecuting a homosexual is wrong.

On the other hand, the islamic militants do know what they are doing is wrong but they feel that it is a lesser evil to take those actions than to not react against globalization.

Of course since both groups use the same rhetoric, it's pretty hard to tell if either side actually knows what they're doing is wrong.
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Offline Genryu

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Wonder what that said about the general IQ of the forum then ;)
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Offline USS Alexander

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Man beheaded in response to US prison ordeal...
Quote
Originally posted by Liberator
This sickens me.  And it shows how barbaric the Militants are.  

Break out the B-52s and lets get to bombin'.  Two or Three more and I be ready to pull out the Finger of God class nukes.  

Let them see that we are not going to be trifled with and that we can't be defeated and they'll fight all the harder and we'll kill them off faster.


That wouldn't make a difference, these are holy wars, those wars cannot be won, the coalition and america cannot fight against invisible men, they will never win from the terrorist, that's impossible, remember that your fighting against most of the islam people and a war against the people is a lost one.

The best thing is to pull out every men and leave them for there own fate.

My personal opinion is that there just playing a big game, for money and oil. they start a war the big weapon factory's go running again, thousends of jobs get available, and that's good for the economy it's all about the money. befoore 11e sep i never heard about bin laden or al quida and all the sudden it's war against terrorists.

But i must say i disagree with the way they murder the americans, beheading is babaric, normal civilized people should know better, but it's war and in war you get casualties, and that's why i don't get it that our country (holland) makes such a fuzz because 1 soldier died.........that man knew the risks, and each day 10e of iraqi and american people die also.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2004, 05:57:49 pm by 400 »
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Offline mikhael

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Man beheaded in response to US prison ordeal...
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Originally posted by USS Alexander
That wouldn't make a difference, these are holy wars, those wars cannot be won, the coalition and america cannot fight against invisible men, they will never win from the terrorist, that's impossible, remember that your fighting against most of the islam people and a war against the people is a lost one.


My friend Crash (formerly of IonStorm: Austin, now of Naughty Dog in Santa Barbara) and I discuss this one constantly. What it comes down to is that when you believe God is on your side, your brain shuts off. Look at Israel/Palestine. Both sides are certain that God is in their corner.
These terrorists who use Islam as a goad: the leaders might be cynical bastards, but they whip up fervor and fantaticism. They make the foot soldiers believe that they can't lose (or if they do it doesn't matter) because God is their Divine Backup.
You simply cannot fight against that sort of non-rationality. Even if one side is right and God IS on their side, you can't use reason or force to make a true-believer capitulate. Reason falls on deaf ears and losing only makes them fight harder.

I think we should colonize Mars, the Moon, etc. Let the zealots fight it out down here. The rational people can go somewhere else safer.
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Offline karajorma

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Bugger that. Shoot them into space instead. I'm not giving up a nice oxygen rich planet to go live in a fragile dome somewhere. ;)

Plus you know that it's only a matter of time before they'd come after us.
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Offline Grey Wolf

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You realize that in about 50 years or so, we are going to have to start sending large numbers of people into space?
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Offline karajorma

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Not if we've already shot the religious nuts into space. :)

For one thing these people prevent the world from having proper birth control and sexual education.
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Offline Grey Wolf

Man beheaded in response to US prison ordeal...
You realize that probably around 90% of the population growth is in China and Southern Asia, not in the First World? Those are places where most religious nuts that people talk about don't have any power.
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Offline adwight

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Man beheaded in response to US prison ordeal...
I just saw the video, and it makes me f*cking sick.  Seeing them do that to a person, its just wrong, and you guys act like "Oh well, its a shame."  It's about ten million times worse than a shame, its just plain wrong.
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Offline mikhael

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Its bad, but it didn't make me sick, adwight.

I lived in Saudi Arabia for a while. I, unfortunately, witnessed a public beheading one fine Friday morning outside one of the mosques in Jeddah. The four men were criminals, three drug dealers and one murderer.

Watching men get killed--guilty or innocent--doesn't make me sick any more. It just makes me angry or sad, depending on the circumstances. :(
« Last Edit: May 13, 2004, 10:17:09 pm by 440 »
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Offline adwight

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No Mikhael, its not that, it's the people that don't even give a ****, like Rictor.
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Offline mikhael

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Meh. I could respond to that, but it'll come out like an attack on Rictor and half the board, so I won't.
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Offline Nico

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Man beheaded in response to US prison ordeal...
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Originally posted by Genryu
Wonder what that said about the general IQ of the forum then ;)


you don't wanna know :p
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Offline karajorma

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Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
You realize that probably around 90% of the population growth is in China and Southern Asia, not in the First World? Those are places where most religious nuts that people talk about don't have any power.


I do realise. China in fact has gone a long way towards limiting population growth. The reason they got away with that is precisely because they aren't a religious country.

There are plenty of charities operating in the third world which try to promote birth control but every time they do the fanatics in the vatican or American government step in and get their funding pulled.
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Offline USS Alexander

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Man beheaded in response to US prison ordeal...
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael


My friend Crash (formerly of IonStorm: Austin, now of Naughty Dog in Santa Barbara) and I discuss this one constantly. What it comes down to is that when you believe God is on your side, your brain shuts off. Look at Israel/Palestine. Both sides are certain that God is in their corner.
These terrorists who use Islam as a goad: the leaders might be cynical bastards, but they whip up fervor and fantaticism. They make the foot soldiers believe that they can't lose (or if they do it doesn't matter) because God is their Divine Backup.
You simply cannot fight against that sort of non-rationality. Even if one side is right and God IS on their side, you can't use reason or force to make a true-believer capitulate. Reason falls on deaf ears and losing only makes them fight harder.

I think we should colonize Mars, the Moon, etc. Let the zealots fight it out down here. The rational people can go somewhere else safer.


yeb and that's why america wil never win. Those kind of poeple wil never give up they fight until the last man and there last breath, in a certain way they are the perfect soldiers. the strategies they use are perfect every thing they do has a impact on the morale of the us soldiers stationed in iraq, like the bombs in spain like 11 sep those are attacks wich will affect the soldiers and the people's morale and in time the morale is so low that the soldiers don't wanna fight anymore and then the terrorists wil win and that makes them fight even more cause then they know they defeated a superpower, i think bad times are coming and this iraqi thing wil escalate.
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Offline karajorma

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Originally posted by USS Alexander
in a certain way they are the perfect soldiers.


Except for their basic stupidity. Anyone with half a brain would have waited till June for the US to pull out before starting trouble.

This whole beheading thing is another example. Had they simply waited this situation could have gotten bad enough to cause major problems for the US and UK but their actions diverted attention away.

Oh well I suppose we should be glad that they are stupid really :)
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