[.::Tin Can::.]

The guards at Abu Ghraib were just friggin idiots. Everyone is against them, including me, but if I was to choose between being tortured or having your head cut off then I would much rather take the torture.

[01010]

Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
The guards at Abu Ghraib were just friggin idiots. Everyone is against them, including me, but if I was to choose between being tortured or having your head cut off then I would much rather take the torture.

BDSM your kinda thing huh?

[Flipside]

Ahem, well, actually I wouldn't, but I certainly hope I never have to make that choice

What concerns me is America's attempts to get it's immunity to War-crimes tribunal extended so that the Abu Ghraib incident can't be properly investigated by anyone but the US. That action, whether well intentioned or not, would generate a lot of suspicion and mistrust

[PeachE]

meh- it's part of war. if anyone expected this thing to come off without incidents like Abu Ghraib or the beheadings, they're just being naive. it happens. it's wrong but it happens. civilians die in war. just the way it is.

if i was in any position to advise the US though, i would suggest starting a quieter approach to taking out its terrorist enemies. if we keep bombing cities and killing civilians, we're going to piss off an entire continent. if we kill the terrorist leaders and the media blasts it all over the news 24 hours a day, we're just going to create a ****load of martyrs. the us should just start looking into ways to making some of these terrorists silently disappear, whether they kill them or not.

[Gank]

Was more than just the actions of a few guards, read the armys own report into it:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/reports/2004/800-mp-bde.htm
Good articles on this site too
http://www.sftt.org/
The guy who runs this site was the man who brought it out into the open.

[Flipside]

http://www.sftt.org/PDF/article06112004a.pdf

I think that particular document says it all really

[.::Tin Can::.]

Then lets flip the situation around and put OUR people in Al Quida prisons. Now, as you can imagine, things would probably be a lot worse, and of course we as Americans would do our most pathetic best at trying to "negotiate for a release" first, before taking any rash action.

Now we put the situation in our perspective, where we have prisons where we make prisoners run around with underwear on, and people call this "OMGWTFBBQ EVIIIIIIIIIIIL". There will always be a batch of sour soldiers who probably either A) Dont follow orders or B) Take the rules into their own hands. This is war, and they are prisoners. They are the enemy.

Some things that the media just LOVES to do, since it is so god damned biased, refuses to view and then playback Sadaam's torture chambers, or death camps he has located all over the place. Now, the media ALL showed what Hitlers camps were like when we got there, recorded it, played it back for everyone to see, and now Nazism is viewed as a horrendous evil. But now since we have such a Liberal media, and since half of them didnt think Sadaam was "that bad, we can deal with him peacefully" then they wont show the camps! An invitation was sent out to view his torture facilities and only about 4 or 5 reporters showed up!

Now, I dont know about you, but it seems that bad news makes it in the papers more then good news does. Liberals love bad news and anything that would make this war look like a tremendous failiure. Anything well-placed would be viewed as something to be cut out and just left to be discovered on ones own.

PeachE couldnt have said it better then I did: This is war, and things happen, and if you dont think so you are rather small-minded and naive.

EDIT: Opening that last article causes my Mozilla Exporer to crash...

[Tiara]

Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
Now we put the situation in our perspective, where we have prisons where we make prisoners run around with underwear on, and people call this "OMGWTFBBQ EVIIIIIIIIIIIL".

You're just a naive little boy eh? I'm really sorry I have to do this but if this is the only damn way to let you see what is really going on.

WARNING! BLOOD IN THESE PICS:

One
Two

CONTAINS GAY SEXUAL ACT:

Three

the rest have no blood etc:









The Army has photographs that show a detainee with wires attached to his genitals.

And to think that the US government isn't showing all pictures must mean that this wasn't even the worst of it all.

[neo_hermes]

i bet you all know this already but...i don't care what happened to anyone in this... "war on terror?" whatever... what i say is this ignore them...sooner or later they'll get bored...if they decide to get our attention by oh i don't know...use biochem on a city... attempt to talk to the terrorist....track dudes postion and blow his ass up/send troops to his house.... well whatever....don't really care anyways...

Edit: i should really read what post...oh well.

[Fineus]

Guys, could you consider linking to images like the ones above... on the one hand it conveys a lot of power in an image but at heart we're a gaming forum, I don't really want to imagine some niave 12 year old surfing through it infront of their parents - only to run accross that kind of thing plastered on the screen. Doesn't exactly convey the right image...

Just please take that into consideration

[Gloriano]

those images started whole thing, so if american citizen is killed in Saudi Arabia. they can only blame USA soldiers who did those things to Iraq Prisoners. I don't have anything against USA but that is just....

but then again it was only another little reason to AQ
kill americans

Does that hate never stop?. I really hope it's stops somehow

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Kalfireth
Guys, could you consider linking to images like the ones above... on the one hand it conveys a lot of power in an image but at heart we're a gaming forum, I don't really want to imagine some niave 12 year old surfing through it infront of their parents - only to run accross that kind of thing plastered on the screen. Doesn't exactly convey the right image...

Just please take that into consideration

Sorry, but some people here needed a serious reality check.

[Fineus]

Oh I agree, but a little caution with what's posted would be... prudent.

[Sandwich]

Semi-relevant tidbits of info. I haven't tried to confirm the validity of these reports, FYI.

[q]Anyone remember this??
It was 1987!

At a lecture the other day they were playing an old news video of Lt.Col. Oliver North testifying at the Iran-Contra hearings during the Reagan Administration. There was Ollie in front of God and country getting the third degree, but what he said was stunning! He was being drilled by a senator; "Did you not recently spend close to $60,000 for a home security system?"

Ollie replied, "Yes, I did, Sir."

The senator continued, trying to get a laugh out of the audience, "Isn't that just a little excessive?"

"No, sir," continued Ollie.

"No? And why not?" the senator asked.

"Because the lives of my family and I were threatened, sir."

"Threatened? By whom?" the senator questioned.

"By a terrorist, sir" Ollie answered.

"Terrorist? What terrorist could possibly scare you that much?"

"His name is Osama bin Laden, sir" Ollie replied.

At this point the senator tried to repeat the name, but couldn't pronounce it, which most people back then probably couldn't. A couple of people laughed at the attempt. Then the senator continued. "Why are you so afraid of this man?" the senator asked..

"Because, sir, he is the most evil person alive that I know of", Ollie answered.

"And what do you recommend we do about him?" asked the senator.

"Well, sir, if it was up to me, I would recommend that an assassin team be formed to eliminate him and his men from the face of the earth."

The senator disagreed with this approach, and that was all that was shown of the clip.

By the way, that senator was Al Gore[/q]

[q]Terrorist pilot Mohammed Atta blew up a bus in Israel in 1986. The Israelis captured, tried and imprisoned him. As part of the Oslo agreement with the Palestinians in 1993, Israel had to agree to release so-called "political prisoners." However, the Israelis would not release any with blood on their hands, The American President at the time, Bill Clinton, and his Secretary of State, Warren Christopher, "insisted" that all prisoners be released.

Thus Mohammed Atta was freed and eventually thanked the US by flying an airline into Tower One of the World Trade Center. This was reported by many of the American TV networks at the time that the terrorists were first identified. It was censored in the US from all later reports.[/q]

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Kalfireth
Oh I agree, but a little caution with what's posted would be... prudent.

If I'm cautious the whole 'reality check' shock effect goes out of the window

[Gank]

Originally posted by Sandwich
Semi-relevant tidbits of info. I haven't tried to confirm the validity of these reports, FYI.

You should have, Oliver North never made those remarks and the Mohammed Atta who blew up the bus was a different person than the one connected with sept 11th.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/north.htm
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/atta.htm
Check your facts in future.

[Falcon X]

Well it seems the bastards got another...  this time a Korean.

Just wait and see what America does when a nuke goes off in her borders.  The world has yet to see our wraith.  We're, for the most part, attempting to play by the rules.  If a nuke does find its way here... God help whoever did it or so much had a finger in helping.  Just remember what America's doctrined response is.

[PeachE]

Originally posted by Gank

You should have, Oliver North never made those remarks  

he made those remarks but he didn't mention Osama bin Laden. he named Abu Nidal. and the interviewer wasn't Al Gore. i believe it was John Nields.

[Krackers87]

Originally posted by jdjtcagle
Ok, reading through this, I  must say anybody who says 'kill them all' needs to wake up...

THERE IS NO way to stop crime in cities or crimes against humanity. (terrorists)
They are all people, stupid, stupid people.  They will always find a way to get more weapons and kill more and more...  They cannot ALL be killed nor can they be stoped. All we are doing is killing people that are killing people which ends up killing more people.

This whole war is an perfect example of humanities primitive and stupid traits... They have always been here, it's just now as we get more smarter, we have learned to kill more people.  

What do we do??  
Well as I said, if you lke it or not, we are on are way to one of the biggest Holocaust in history, that could either unite the world or destroy it completely.  What do you think humanity is going to chose??

wtf, since when did u become mr prophet?

killing them all is a better goal than not, or killing a few, because if u ask me, that would lead to more death, and mostly innocent deth at that. I think that if someone is killed, because they are killing others for little or no reason, then it is in the end, a much more acceptable outcome than where a person is killed for no reason, only because they are not liked for reasons they cant control.

In addition though, i wonder if anyone has literaly sat down and talked to a radical about why they do these things and what they want. I mean i havent heard of that yet, anybody just asking those questions. I would like to do that if i could sit in a room with such a person, without the risk of being imediately disemboweled.

But, has anyone tried this yet? I would like to know the results, and what was said if so.

[jdjtcagle]

that was my very humble opinion, ok...
and I agree with every word of it

Plus you didn't get what I was saying, I don't think we should not try to kill them. I'm simply saying that the outcome of this war may not be pretty...
and there is nothing we can do about it.