[ionia23]

Originally posted by Kazan
ionia23: way to be a stereotyping ass

Most of the bugs in windows are bugs I would have been embarassed to make 6 years ago.

Mmm, I see.  And how is your completely custom-designed operating system selling these days?  Obviously, yours is so much better and bug-free too.  I'm wondering where I can pick up a copy.

[Krackers87]

Originally posted by Kazan
ionia23: way to be a stereotyping ass

Microsoft may be bigger - but they did not do it better.  They didn't do it first either

Xerox did it first, Apple licensed it, Microsoft Stole it

Microsoft's software is the worst crap in history - it has lowered the bar for quality accountability, it's disgustingly unacceptable.  I am fighting with one of their bug's right now, it's a ****ing headache - it's a bug that should never have happened!.


Most of the bugs in windows are bugs I would have been embarassed to make 6 years ago.


Windows has users who are troubled by viruses and scams
Mac has devotees, and now it's a unix-clone
Linux has powerusers who cannot be troubled with pointless rebooting, email virus crap, security holes the size of texas or any of that other M$ drivel.

When my games are remade for linux, then preach to me.

[Kazan]

Something selling doesn't mean it's the best product

There is this thing called monopoly lock.  Bill Gates did one brilliant thing in his entire life: get IBM to license the operating system instead of buy it.  That put him in a position to be the incumbent and now he is the incumbent monopoly.  

All other major operatings systems (OSX, Linux, BSD, Solaris, etc) as unix-clones/unix-variants so porting apps between them is TRIVIAL.  Windows is the "odd man out"

Furthermore how do you "sell" something that is free?  You sell support, not copies.


Here's how microsoft is making out in the internet:

HTTPDs:


(bah.. i cannot find the OS one, but you can guess that more peopler are running apache/linux than apache/windows)

[Kazan]

Originally posted by Krackers87


When my games are remade for linux, then preach to me.

A) There are already games being made for linux (hmm UT2k3 and UT2k4 come to mind immediately)

B) More games would be made for linux when more people switch

C) Codeweavers Crossover Office and WineX gets a great number of Windows games running on linue without having to have any windblows files

D) Can you see why this is a self-defeating statement?

[Krackers87]

Originally posted by Kazan


A) There are already games being made for linux (hmm UT2k3 and UT2k4 come to mind immediately)

B) More games would be made for linux when more people switch

C) Codeweavers Crossover Office and WineX gets a great number of Windows games running on linue without having to have any windblows files

D) Can you see why this is a self-defeating statement?

Note how i say REMADE in other words, not ported with some program, but Re-Made, like TA, Starsiege, Starcraft, etc...

And most may be alright, but i need ALL, i wont sacrifice half of my large game collection (90+) for any reason.

[Kazan]

A) The games I name were not "ported with some other program" or "remade" - they were made natively for windows.


Why don't you go check the Codeweavers WineX compatability lists

[Martinus]

[color=66ff00]ionia, I must agree with Kazan here. Cornering and constricting a market does not mean you are better than the competition at anything other than cornering and constricting.

Linux is about choice, it really is what you make it and believe me it took me a great deal of time and effort to come to this realisation, I haven't totally gone over to linux and I don't agree with kazan on distro choice (I prefer Gentoo at this point).

If I'd stuck with windows I'd be restricted to having to update and having to run certain software, I'd also end up paying the price for every little security problem inherent in the OS which means purchasing third party software to fix it in many cases. Sure linux has problems but there's an army of people out there willing to fix them, for free!

Microsoft may have a stranglehold but their grip is loosening as linux becomes more accessable to the masses, linux is gaining ground fast. There's a great community spirit to it too, not unlike freespace actually. People like to help each other and learn from each other's experiences, communism in the truest sense of the word.
[/color]

[mitac]

Apart from such discussions : shoot me, so I won't have a bad headache tomorrow from drinking so much.

[01010]

Pfft, I'd still prefer Workbench over Windows or Linux though.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by 01010
Pfft, I'd still prefer Workbench over Windows or Linux though.

You always struck me as a man of taste

Workbench was a perfect balance in that it was much easier to learn than Linux but didn't hold you back once you knew what you were doing.

[01010]

Originally posted by karajorma


You always struck me as a man of taste

Workbench was a perfect balance in that it was much easier to learn than Linux but didn't hold you back once you knew what you were doing.

It was what I cut my personal computing teeth on and I still have fond memories of it. Playing about with it on WinUae makes me realise how advanced it was for the time, especially conisdering PC's were still using DOS.

Oh and the Atari ST was a bag of wank, stupid ST fans thinking that they had a computer anywhere near as good as the Amiga.

[karajorma]

I know. Most people don't realise that the ST was actually built after the Amiga but cause they used off the shelf components rather than the custom chips in the Amiga they got to market first.

The result however was that the ST had worse graphics and lacked the power of AmigaOS.

The reason that ST people could argue their computer was better (or at least equal) to the Amiga was cause lots of games were written on the ST then ported. As soon as they started writing them on the Amiga first the flaws in the ST became apparent.

As for the PC comparing even the A500 against the equivalent PC of its day looks like a horrible joke. Change that to the A2000 and you really have to wonder why on Earth the Amiga wasn't more successful. Then you remember that Commodore owned them and it all becomes apparent.

[Kosh]

Originally posted by Mr. Fury
I like this.
http://users.bigpond.net.au/Turnsky/images/matrixlight1280.jpg

Now that's just cool.

[Turnsky]

Originally posted by Kazan

HTTPDs:


(bah.. i cannot find the OS one, but you can guess that more peopler are running apache/linux than apache/windows)

y'see, here's the rub, Apache's probably much easier to work with, and is more secure to use, than anything microsoft..

look, love it or hate it, microsoft /did/ help bring the personal computer to the people, and made it easier to work with than macs (making the modular computer system more widely used..

and before people start jumping on the mac bandwagon, remember this, the macs of that time were just self-contained little boxes, overpriced ones at that.

we've heard this rhetoric before, so ****ing what?
if any other OS went the same way as windows, you'd be *****ing about that instead.

[Flipside]

It's not so much the operating system I have problems with, when I first started in computing, the standards changed almost weekly, BASIC, FORTH (footing yourself in the shoot ) ,PASCAL etc etc, it's the business practices of Microsoft and the obvious subservience of the monopolies commsion/courts when it comes to dealing with them.

If MS weren't aware themselves that their product can be outdone, why do they try so hard to stamp on other products. Also, if this is the case, why don't Microsoft admit it and do something about it? Because of those self-same 'Atilla the Hun' attitudes

I use Windows XP, but that's not Microsofts doing, it's the companies that do not, or will not support other platforms when writing software.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Turnsky
we've heard this rhetoric before, so ****ing what?
if any other OS went the same way as windows, you'd be *****ing about that instead.

I would not have been complaining about world domination by AmigaOS.

I wouldn't complain if Linux did it either (although I'd want a much more idiot proof version first).

[aldo_14]

We need multiple OS's to force innovation and improvement through competition....

MS only has to innovate only because of this pressure, so the more of a market stranglehold they have, the worse it is for technology in general.  

Linux could 'survive' (in terms of evolving and improving) without Windows competition, because its very nature encourages everyone to alter and work with it.

But if Linux didn't exist as a competitor, MS would never have to improvise.  Technology would virtually stand still, because - even though customers would complain - they'd be no viable alternative that they could even threaten to use.

It's interesting to note that Ms has been having roadshows in the Uk to basically promote themselves and slag of Open Source - it's been covered in The Register, who noted that the promised 'open and free discussion about the benefits and disadvantages of OS' failed to actually mention the benefits....amongst other things.

[Flipside]

Part of the problem is, I think, that an OS is an OS, so when you are the most popular OS, you have to add Bells and Whistles to keep selling newer versions of your product. It's happened for PCs and it's pretty much happened for MACs as well. The only way out is for the users themselves to revolt, but since most people aren't even made aware there is a choice the doesn't have the word 'Windows' at the front, this is unlikely to happen

[aldo_14]

NB:  It's also worth noting the amount of power MS has, when you think of the number of governmental systems built on Windows technology..... that's a mssive argument for use of Open Source code right there.

[Zarax]

Getting  back on Topics, i'd shoot Berlusconi... But on second thought, since that would make him a martyr i'll just keep on my strategy of persuading MS into buying mediaset...

*WARNING: Possible flame content below*

And about MS, they will be replaced only when someone else will make a system built around retrocompatibility... Every competitor ignored the sheer mass of old software and that made them fail... Starting with IBM with that horrible mainframe OS2 thing...
And about buggy software, there's nothing like have some product team e-mail addresses and have them semi forced to listen... When you have to deal with Microsoft you have to remember some things...

A) They are a software developer and a corporation, so if you want to persuade them into doing something you should point on the profitability side... It does wonders, while on an ethical side you might not be successfull... But this is a common thing with EVERY corporation...

B) "Microsoft sux, Linux rulez shoot Bill Gates" won't bring anyone anywhere... Like everywhere in the world constructive criticism works better... I've had a few post exchanges with Monty from xiph.org (OGG "developers"), and that way he earned my respect while kicking half of my small community butts including mine... Not so hard on the programming side but still style matters...

C) What are YOU doing in order to improve the overall software quality around maybe except installing some *nix OS and feeling cool?

D) About MS slowing the innovation i would like to invite you to visit www.microsoft.com/research and see things that belonged more to science fiction than reality... MS is not all about software and is doing great things in some fields... The IBM house thingy is a rip-off of MS projects...

E) My personal opinion is that the main problem with MS is Steve Ballmer... Though he is an excellent businessman on his own i don't share his vision of business ethics and i think few people do... That said, there is plenty of great people inside Microsoft who really cares about quality software... I had the great luck of being invited to Redmond as MVP, and had my chance to talk with the product teams and point out the problems in a very direct but still polite way...

F) It is not in my intention to start a flame on the topic, if the admins opinion is different than mine on it they are free to apply censorship here...

On a final note, if you have problems with MS or MS software post them in MS own newsgroups... If enough people post about a thing they really cares about that... Of course there are more reactive product teams than other ones but everywhere they will care and even give feedback once you reach a critical mass or point something bad enough...