[Fury]

See third post in the ref material thread, which was posted by Primus. There is a sub-topic EA Cotton Tender and five links below it.

[I_E_Maverick]

sorry, i just looked at the last post.

[-Norbert-]

Well, the Lumati ships is most likely a transport.
The only other non-EA civilian ships I can currently think of would be the Centauri and Narn transports and the Lintara. And you could count the Avionik to civilian ships too, since it's more like an armed transport/freither than a combatship.
I fear for civilian ships, you have to go to non-cannon sources. But I hope someone can correct me.

[Roanoke]

Originally posted by I_E_Maverick
though i think we have to think of revising some of the weapons, i played both of IPs missions, and the victory took out 3 shadow battlecrabs, 4 scouts and several shadow fighters on its own

Originally posted by Mr. Fury

Sounds just like IP.

The IP I remembe5r from RW would have Alpha 1 upagainst  all that lot. On his/her own.

[aipz]

Some older Starfury's are quite interesting...

Flying Fox/Aries Starfury Family

 

Tiger Starfury (the EA Mainstay in the Dilgar War) - the predecessor of Aurora/Badger Family

 

[Fury]

They look too much like Nial wannabes.

[aipz]

The beginning is always the most difficult...

[I_E_Maverick]

Originally posted by Mr. Fury
They look too much like Nial wannabes.

i agree! i am sure there are better designs out there!

[the_leander]

Why not stick with the basic Aurora design?

I know this might seem odd, but think about the way todays fighter jet design is - its not revolutionary, its evolutionary, the latest US F22 Raptor is essentially (looks wise) a squared off F15. Why not take the same aproach with the starfury - simply make it a bit more busy and a little more fragile looking, whilst keeping the same basic design charactoristics.

[the_leander]

Originally posted by I_E_Maverick
i will do some shots later for more pics, especially with the gatling canons. that looks like in the show, IPAndrews did a great job on the weapons.

though i think we have to think of revising some of the weapons, i played both of IPs missions, and the victory took out 3 shadow battlecrabs, 4 scouts and several shadow fighters on its own

i am finishing now xill and xorr, pics will follow

I'm curious as to who would win between a Victory and a Sharlin...

[Fury]

A Victory even without using it's main cannon. The design is a joint operation of both Minbari and EA. Victory boasts the best of both races technology and also some vorlon techology. Unfortunately EA did hide the fact that they also have shadow technology under their sleeves that went to another ship...

[Lt.Cannonfodder]

Originally posted by I_E_Maverick

i agree! i am sure there are better designs out there!

DamoclesX did some fantastic ships and textures for his starshatter mod. I'm not sure if he based the designs to some cannon or semi-cannon sources, though.

[aipz]

I know those old starfurys look a bit odd...
but the implementation of Tiger Starfury is important as the ship was the main EA fighter during the dilgar war and it's design is semi-canon (from rpg game)...

DamoclesX did some fantastic ships and textures for his starshatter mod. I'm not sure if he based the designs to some cannon or semi-cannon sources, though.

Actually if you look at the pictures from Starshatter it looks similar to Aurora, except the fact it has 2 main engines located on the hull and only small thrusters on "X" wings...

Info about Tiger Starfury

You may consider the older XXII century designs as non-existent if you don't like them...

[Fury]

I'm not so sure about Tiger Starfury and it being the main fighter of EA during the Dilgar War. The bottom line is that it's not canon.

If you think back to the time right before the Earth-Minbari War started, it was not so long after he Dilgar War ended. Nova dreadnought was supposedly a new ship then, but Hyperion was their main capital ship in the Dilgar War. Again, supposedly as this is only speculation based on the loose facts I've noticed in the show and especially in ItB movie. To think sensibly, I really don't see how EA replaced all of their fighters with Aurora starfuries and downright scrapped all older starfuries just like that. Even if they did, it's not like it would have happened over night. We didn't see any of those older fighters in the Battle of Line or anywhere else. I'm quite sure EA did use the same Starfury design in the Dilgar War as they used in the Minbari War. They may have made small improvements after the Dilgar War but I very much doubt the design was changed so radically in such short time. Otherwise we would have seen those older fighters during the Minbari War, as we did see Olympus corvette which also seems like a very old design compared to Hyperion.

And even though Omega destroyers all but replaced both Hyperion and Nova, EA did not scrap those ships and we saw them in many occasions during the show and movies. Same goes with Aurora when Thunderbolt replaced it.

So to summarise. There is no proof whatsoever that any other design than current aurora starfury existed during the Dilgar War. I'm sure they did use an older version of it though. Less armor, less effective sensors, less effective thrusters, less effective weapons. But the basic design was all the same.

[aipz]

Sorry, my mistake - it was used on Hyperions and other less important craft...


It's obvious that it was less advanced than Aurora...

But it would be similar in performance in some areas like weapons or manouverability (=Badger I think)

It is only a suggestion to implement this model someday along the way...

[Prophet]

Originally posted by Mr. Fury
Same goes with Aurora when Thunderbolt replaced it.

Tbolt didn't replace Aurora.
Aurora offers better FOV for the pilot and the chassis is smaller and less bulky tha Tbolt. Only things that are better in Tbolt are speed and rate of fire, and that it can go in athmostphere.

In fact I really belive that when Aurora grows a little more older it would be replaced with a new fighter build in to the same chassis, but using new tech (new comp systems, ECM, ECCM, whatever). Because the Aurora really is an ideal desing for a starfighter. Tbolt just looks different because they wanted it to fly in athmosphare.

[Fury]

Sorry but Tbolt indeed did seem to eventually replace Aurora. Or were I the only one who noticed that nearly all if not all Omega destroyers in Season 3 and onwards had only Thunderbolts in them, not a single Aurora was seen launched from Omegas.

Even Sheridan praised how well the fighter handled. Even if FOV of the pilot was indeed smaller than in aurora, it had better equipment to compensate for it. In real battle situations, the cockpit may even become completely look-through with HUD being the pilot's helmet, such technology is already being developed to modern fighters.

[Prophet]

Originally posted by Mr. Fury
Sorry but Tbolt indeed did seem to eventually replace Aurora. Or were I the only one who noticed that nearly all if not all Omega destroyers in Season 3 and onwards had only Thunderbolts in them, not a single Aurora was seen launched from Omegas.

Perhaps that at the time it was newer design and used never tech. Avionics and such systems.

Originally posted by Mr. Fury
Even Sheridan praised how well the fighter handled. Even if FOV of the pilot was indeed smaller than in aurora, it had better equipment to compensate for it. In real battle situations, the cockpit may even become completely look-through with HUD being the pilot's helmet, such technology is already being developed to modern fighters.

Yes he did. That may be explained by the fact that it's newer design than Aurora. Obiously they would have improved the systems from Aurora, learned from mistakes and optimized the thurst systems to be better suitet for the bigger and heavier Tbolt. But Tbolt appears to be a multipurpose fighter. It's two seater and athmosphere capable. And perhaps more useful in Omegas. But that makes it more expensive than Aurora.
But as a pure space fighter the Aurora is at least as effective as Tbolt. It's smaller and the pilot is in a standig position right in the center, thus greatly reducing the effects of high-G manouvers. The chassis is far more superior to Tbolt. With new weapons, upgraded manouvering systems and avionics, it might well overcome the Tbolt. Might not be capable of as many tasks as Tbolt, but would be cheaper.

[NGTM-1R]

Originally posted by Mr. Fury
If you think back to the time right before the Earth-Minbari War started, it was not so long after he Dilgar War ended.

Okay. Let's take a number here. At least five years sound good? Now, I've seen sources that say something like twenty years, but I'll be generous.

Originally posted by Mr. Fury
To think sensibly, I really don't see how EA replaced all of their fighters with Aurora starfuries and downright scrapped all older starfuries just like that.

Given a minimum timeframe of five years, possibly more, you propose that the EA could not have completely replaced their Starfury force.

Now, comparison: EA managed fleetwide, or something very close to it, replacement of the Aurora on all ships capable of carrying the Thunderbolt in a timespan of something like two years.

Originally posted by Mr. Fury
I'm quite sure EA did use the same Starfury design in the Dilgar War as they used in the Minbari War. They may have made small improvements after the Dilgar War but I very much doubt the design was changed so radically in such short time.

Again the Thunderbolt comes back to haunt this argument. Something else does too: the Auroras used in the E-M War were  Mark Is.

Originally posted by Mr. Fury
Otherwise we would have seen those older fighters during the Minbari War, as we did see Olympus corvette which also seems like a very old design compared to Hyperion. And even though Omega destroyers all but replaced both Hyperion and Nova, EA did not scrap those ships and we saw them in many occasions during the show and movies. Same goes with Aurora when Thunderbolt replaced it.

Faulty analogy; capital craft are inherently a more viable choice for continual upgrades, partly because of the great expense of replacing them, and partly because of their greater size and hence greater room for systems growth.

Originally posted by Mr. Fury
Same goes with Aurora when Thunderbolt replaced it.

The Aurora was retained because some EA ships were incapable of operating the Thunderbolt. Not because they wanted to keep it; I'm sure they didn't.

Originally posted by Mr. Fury
So to summarise. There is no proof whatsoever that any other design than current aurora starfury existed during the Dilgar War. I'm sure they did use an older version of it though. Less armor, less effective sensors, less effective thrusters, less effective weapons. But the basic design was all the same.

EA Aurora Mark I. Enough said.

[PSI-KILLER]

I just had to comment that in Season1 of B5, in Deathwalker I think, Sinclar talks about the Dilgar war and how his father was a veteren from that war.  The time frame if I remeber right was 40 years prior, unlike the EA-Mimbari war just 10 years prior.  A matter of fact no one could even recognize a Dilger until they looked at the history files.