Author Topic: A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP  (Read 32963 times)

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Offline Whitelight

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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
I don`t like or dislike Derick Smart, I don`t know the guy, haven`t purchased any of his games.. Only recently heard about him trying to buy the rights to freespace here..

I heard something disturbing at another forum and would like to hear the truth, if there is a truth.. Anyway I`m not sure I should even bring this up here because I do, and will abide by the admins ruling..

So i`d prefer to ask a question, but on the other hand I don`t want to cause trouble and start something that may spiral out of control..

So i`ve decided to wait for a while before bringing this to light..

(edit) Umm, it seems it was just a pissing contest for now.. :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: July 17, 2004, 10:52:23 pm by 695 »
Simpicity of character is the natural resualt of profound thought

  

Offline Genryu

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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
Ask away, with the way things are going, it can't manage to piss off more people that are already pissed off.
Man is making better fool proof machines everyday. Nature is making bigger fools everyday. So far, Nature is winning.
- Albert Einstein
"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
- Gandhi

 

Offline karajorma

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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
Quote
Originally posted by Whitelight
So i`d prefer to ask a question, but on the other hand I don`t want to cause trouble and start something that may spiral out of control..

So i`ve decided to wait for a while before bringing this to light..


Ask on the big Derek Smart thread. If it sounds like a flame people will tell you.

In fact all discussion should really be on that thread. The only thing anyone should post on this one should be questions.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline WMCoolmon

  • Purveyor of space crack
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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
Quote
Originally posted by Ford Prefect
This sounds crazy, but how about a main hall that's consistent with the design of the ship you're on. Has anyone else noticed that there's virtually no conceivable way that the window in the Aquitaine's main hall could be where it is? It's little but it bugs the hell out of me.



They're holographic displays, meant to mimic the appearance of being glass. It helps for the pilots who get claustrophobic. ;)

It also works a lot better than the 'outdoor patio' idea used on the GTVA Colossus. (Hence the reason why it rarely deployed any fighter wings...)
-C

 

Offline Setekh

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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
I'm going to re-iterate this again. This thread was intended to buy time. I have no intention in the slightest of silencing voices and shutting up valid opinions. But what I think people are missing most in this situation is that the wire we tread is thin, and there is no way to climb back up. I am fully aware of the unlikelihood of redeeming this situation or cultivating a positive relationship with Derek, based on how he has behaved in the past. But I refuse to give up on him here without a moment's hesitation. That is what this thread was for; to provide a chance. Once that chance is exhausted, we go back to our daily lives and we voice ourselves all we want. But this is not something we can turn back on if we go ahead with all the negativity.
- Eddie Kent Woo, Setekh, Steak (of Steaks), AWACS. Seriously, just pick one.
HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS, now V3.0. Bringing Modders Together since January 2001.
THE HARD LIGHT ARRAY. Always makes you say wow.

 

Offline Ford Prefect

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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
Quote
It also works a lot better than the 'outdoor patio' idea used on the GTVA Colossus. (Hence the reason why it rarely deployed any fighter wings...)


Hahahaha! I heard similar things about the failure of the tropical resort concept on the GTD Hades and the strip clubs on the NTF Iceni. :lol:
« Last Edit: July 18, 2004, 11:17:54 am by 2015 »
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Rictor

  • Murdered by Brazilian Psychopath
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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
I haven't read the whole thread but here is my opinion.

I think that idealogically, this game "belongs" to every Freespace fan out there, especially to the people at HLP, since they stuck out the longest.

In his arrogance (thats appropriate to say, the man admitted it), Derek Smart thinks that Freespace "belongs" to him and that he can do with it as he wants. This is wrong, and I'm angered by the "like it or piss off" attitude. If it comes to putting your own "creative vision" on the product when making a sequel, anyone here has as much right to do that as he does. And if the vast majority of the FS community, and the gaming commuity in general, thinks that he is unable to do the game justice, thats ought to be the end of it.

The other point, and I'm sure that it has been brought up before, is that I just don't think he can pull it off. His track record is less than stellar. It seem to me that he has something to prove, and that all his games have been more-or-less the same vision. It also seems to me that he will keep trying to implement this vision until he succseeds (sp?), and that Freespace 3 will be no different.

To make an analogy, I have no problem with Irrational making Tribes 3, because:

a) They seem to care deeply for what the fan-base wants.

b) They are world-class developers, and the likelyhood that they will be able to deliver a game worthy of the name Tribes is very good.

My third point, is that Im just not very fond of Derek Smart as person. If the above two criteria were satisfied, I could maybe handle it. But as we all know, Derek Smart is not that nice a guy. And the prospect that we as a community will have to snivel and beg for every minor alteration to his vision does not sit well with me.

No one knows more about or cares more about Freespace than the people assembled here. With what right does someone come along and, in direct contravention of everything that we as a community want, propose to make Freespace 3. I'm not saying that HLP has to be consulted over every minor detail, but if we're kicking and screaming, then its rather obvious that Derek Smart's Freespace 3 does not only not have our blessing, but not even our tolerance. And on this point, I think that the majority of the gaming community agrees.

 

Offline jdjtcagle

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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
:nod::yes:
"Brings a tear of nostalgia to my eye" -Flipside
------------------------------------------
I'm an Apostolic Christian (Acts: 2:38)
------------------------------------------
Official Interplay Freespace Stories
Predator
Hammer Of Light - Omen of Darkness
Freefall in Darkness
A Thousand Years

 

Offline Lonestar

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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
I hope DSmart doesnt totally ignore us, and I hope if he does buy the license he will consider the fans of the series.

If he screws up, thats life.

 

Offline Whitelight

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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
Lonestar

D Smart has stated he will not follow a fanbase or there ideas, meaning he will follow up on his own ideas of how FS3 should be..

I will wait and see where this goes before i`ll spend my money on his creation, hell he just might pull it off and suprise us all.. His track record has been somewhat lacking to say the least..

But first he must get the rights to the game.


(edit) He also stated he`d spend 2m on its creation and 18 months, not really ideal.

Only time will tell so I`ll stay neuteral untill then..

(edit2) He has stated he will try to contact someone at V for any imformation they can give on the storyline, but even if he does follow through, will anyone at V give him any?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2004, 02:25:06 pm by 695 »
Simpicity of character is the natural resualt of profound thought

 

Offline übermetroid

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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
Maybe, but they DO still feel like FreeSpace is their baby...
"This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."

 

Offline pyro-manic

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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
My questions:

1) Will there be joystick support? (There should be)

2) Where will the narrative come from? Will it continue the original ideas and concepts, or will it be a quick pull-it-out-the-ass "Hollywood reworking" job that changes things drastically?

3) Are you going to change/kill off/otherwise de-mystify the Shivans?

4) Will you put maximum effort into this project, with the aim of creating a worthy successor to FS1 and 2 and making a game that gamers will want to play, or will it be a money-making exercise, with the result aimed at the Sims/Britney's Dance Crap™ mass market?

5) Will it be moddable to anything like the extent that the two existing games are?

6) Will it be any good???

There we are, I'm done. I don't know Derek Smart, I've never talked to him, and I have no idea what sort of person he is, so I'm not going to comment on his being or not being a tit. :)

All I care about is the game! :hopping:;)
Any fool can pull a trigger...

 

Offline Zarax

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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
What about creating a feedback cohordination thread?
That way we might be able to ask things coherently and focus more productively on the thing...
Admins, any thought on it?
The Best is Yet to Come

 

Offline Whitelight

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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
I got one question...
Will FS3 contain a fred3 editor if D Smart is at the helm?

(edit) if he spends 2 mill and 18 months on its creation I would think not.

Anyway it would have to get good reviews before i`d buy it..
« Last Edit: July 18, 2004, 07:12:46 pm by 695 »
Simpicity of character is the natural resualt of profound thought

 

Offline Killfrenzy

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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
FS3 in any incarnation would have to seriously eclipse FS2, IMHO. FS2 outshone FS1 in so many respects but critically retained the fundamental features that made the game work so well. Those features and the details have been discussed umpteen times before, so there's no reason to do so again.

As I said in the fundraising thread, I've tried to play both BC3K and BCMil, and found them seriously lacking in so many departments. 10 out of 10 for ambition, but minus several thousand for very poor implementation. I couldn't work out how to do anything in those games!

FreeSpace 2 is the game that catapulted me onto the internet community scene. It was the inspiration for my own sci-fi ideas, the sole occupant of hours upon hours of my time when I could have been doing other things far more important. That I would be so fond and protective of such a masterpiece of the space combat genre is perfectly understandable, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here who thinks along those lines.

HLP is the last major bastion of a unified FS community. Yes, there are smaller outposts and rogue fans here and there, but only at HLP do we have a collection of thousands of people all dedicated to FS and its many facets.

I intend to do what I can to keep FreeSpace in the way that it found me: exciting, exhilirating, beautiful, fun, easy to play and easy to mod.

FS2 is the ONLY game I can mod. The structure of the game files, once known is so amazingly logical. My thanks go out to all those who made FS2 modding one of the easiest tasks in the world. You know who you are. This moddability of FS and FS2 is, I believe, the single thing that has kept the game and franchise alive. If not for the incredible time and effort spent on things like TBP, Inferno, FSPort, WCS and the like, would DS have seriously considered obtaining the license to, let's be honest, a defunct franchise that's been dead commercially for five years.

With DS in mind, I think that whilst he might have some good ideas, his approach to the problem is lacking. He strikes me as unprofessional in his conduct, sloppy in his implementation and in some cases, overreactional. With these in mind, along with the track record of the Battlecruiser series, I personally do not believe he has what it takes to make a worthy FreeSpace 3. Such a game would need to be as playable as the first two, as easy to mod, and with graphics at least on par with X2's (as an example).

I know I'm nowhere near 'large' or 'loud' on HLP or within the community in general. I do what I can, but my own abilities are seriously lacking in several areas. To me, the inspiration from chaps like Kazan, Bobbaou, TBP's wonderful team, the SCP gang and the like are what have kept me coming back here time after time. You guys are the pillar that keeps me modding FS2 to create The Swarm War. One day it might just get finished! To you I say 'thank you.' You've kept the community going. I know I've only singled out a very select few as examples, but if I were to mention everyone here who has contributed to FS2 in some superb way, I would be here until doomsday and still would not be finished!

We're mostly agreed that DS is the wrong person for FS3. Who is besides :V:? That is the question we should be asking ourselves. If :V: is unable, for whatever reason, to produce FS3, who can we turn to? Who, in the eyes of the FS community, is 'worthy' of producing a legitimate sequel? Are WE[/b] capable? If we all banded together into a giant project team then maybe. But I have my doubts.

I myself am studying a degree in computing with a view to joining the games industry within the next five years. I know that much will have changed between now and then. I am attending ECTS this year to start on the laborious bridge-building process between myself and developers with a view to obtaining a placement for my third year of Uni (which is a work placement). Until I'm doing things for myself, I shall still support the FS community. I shall still mod. I shall help Kazan with Ferrium in any way I can, even if my contribution is somewhat small. I shall still uphold the virtues of what made FreeSpace 2 the most wonderful game playing experience of my life, and above all, I shall be one of the last people to leave the FS community, and only then it'll be when HLP dies for whatever reason. That doesn't mean I'll stop modding the game - it'll only mean I'll be unable to show off to you lot!

This has been possibly the longest single post I've ever made here, but I think to summarise my message is this:

* DS is wrong for the FS franchise, for several repeated reasons

* The community is, and will always be, strongly united even in the face of diversity of opinions

* We can't let our petty squabbles get in the way of what we're here for: The love of FreeSpace 2 and the modding of said game

One last thing: As I mentioned, I'm off to ECTS at the start of September. If this business hasn't blown over by then, are there any British-based developers you'd like to see make a bid for the FS license? :D
Death has more impact than life, for everyone dies, but not everyone lives. [/b]
-Tomoe Hotaru (Sailor Saturn
------------
Founder of Shadows of Lylat

 

Offline Zarathud

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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
Wow.  Killfrenzy hits the nail right on the head.  That's a post to be proud of.  I 100% agree with it.

Best of luck getting a foot in the door in the gaming community!
Zarathud, retired FreeSpace coordinator of the Descent Chronicles/VolitionWatch

 

Offline Flipside

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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
Shiny! Go for Shiny Entertainment! ;)

Thanks KF, and well said :)

 

Offline Nix

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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
Quote
Originally posted by Lonestar
I hope DSmart doesnt totally ignore us, and I hope if he does buy the license he will consider the fans of the series.

If he screws up, thats life.


*sniff sniff*
smells like Deus Ex: Invisible War

But even the ORIGINAL developers ignored the fans on that one... so who knows what could happen in the hands of another developer.  I shudder to think though after watching the Universal Combat videos....

 

Offline Liberator

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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
I don't know about the rest of you, but I read in one of the threads about this somewhere, maybe it was avault...anyway, Mr. Smart muttered something about if you can't be bothered to read a 90 page manual to play his games you shouldn't play his games.  When I read this I was aghast, first at the elitism that the statement showed, but what bothers me more is the idea that someone who is supposedly well-educated and has been working in the game industry for a decade or more thinks that people who buy a game, any game, want to read a novel in order to play the game and get any sort of enjoyment out of it.  He has forgotten, or more likely never learned, that games are about having fun.  To him, as best as I can grasp, a game is an intellectual exercise for his benefit both financially and intellectually instead of something that is met for people pick up and enjoy as a form of recreation, not spend half their off time figuring out how the bejigger works and then find out they don't like or would rather do something else.

I didn't mean this to turn into a rant or anything, but I don't believe that Mr. Smart has anywhere near the experience(or talent, from everthing I've read his desires far outweigh his ability) with big, sparkly action oriented games to be allowed to make Freespace 3.  I would rather a more action oriented studio/publisher get the IP and produce FS3 or for things to stay as they are that for Mr. Smart to make a less than stellar version.  

I don't care what kind of resources you have available, or what you have already prepared.  You cannot make Freespace 3 in 18 months for $500,000 and have it be what it needs or deserves to be.  FS3 deserves to be treated as a major big-budget motion picture in all areas, Voice Talent, Graphics, and Audio.

Voice Talent alone would be in the $100,000 range.  FS2 had some major Hollywood stars as voice artists(Robert Loggia, Ronny Cox, Kurtwood Smith, and Steven Baldwin), FS3 demands the same calibre of Voice Talent.

Any FS3 that would be produced would also demand top-of-the-line graphics, maybe not HL2 or Doom 3 calibre, but certainly similar to UT2k4.

Sound is yet another area that FS3 would have to excel, having orchestral pieces through out as well as high quality special effects in the same vein as FS2.

FS3 should have a top-notch SP campaign scripted by as much of the original creative staff as possible.

If Mr. Smart can provide these things, then go for it, if he can't, doesn't wish to or seeks to use the FS as a new branding for the same old mediocre software that he is famous for, then he should reconsider and walk away now.

Thank you for listening to my ramble.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline Gloriano

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A Dialogue On FreeSpace 3: Derek Smart & HLP
Quote
Originally posted by Zarathud
Wow.  Killfrenzy hits the nail right on the head.  That's a post to be proud of.  I 100% agree with it.



Indeed, well said KF:)
You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.- Nietzsche

When in despair I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won; there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall.- Mahatma Gandhi