[Fear]

well i hope it will end soon but this operating will countinue for a few week, if they will just stop firing the kasams.... god they dont understand they are dooming their own people.... if it will countinure this way palastine will have more than 200 deads by the end of the month.

[Rictor]

now why on earth do you think they're attacking Israel? Could it possible be the illegal and barbaric occupation of Gaza and the West Bank?

no, they have no reason, surely, they're just crazy is all.

or do you think that if Hamas & Co just stopped attacking, Israel would pull out?

[Fergus]

The conflict will only continue to get worse, there were a few glimmering chances at lasting peace but they are gone.  In my view both (militant) sides are so bloddied that there is no right side, and the civilians on both sides are becoming so angry with each other that they are willing to do more and more to each other-regardless of cost.  It just seems like such a massive waste of life.  One of those things that just...doesn't make sense.

and I hope your friend is well.

[Fear]

Originally posted by Rictor
now why on earth do you think they're attacking Israel? Could it possible be the illegal and barbaric occupation of Gaza and the West Bank?

no, they have no reason, surely, they're just crazy is all.

or do you think that if Hamas & Co just stopped attacking, Israel would pull out?

U know why did they start this operation? because the hamas didnt stopped firing kasams on israel... non-stop for over a year. THEY ARE ATTACKING! get it in your mind.
its thier fault now they are paying badly for it, the sad thing is that they are getting madder sending more "soldiers" to die.

[Corsair]

Yes, they're fighting the IDF. And if you were a Palestinian, would you do something differently? Wouldn't you fight for your land and your people instead of fleeing in the face of the enemy? You have just as much pride as they do and you'd do the exact same. Look at yourself in the mirror...Palestinians and Israelis are, at heart, the same.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Fear

U know why did they start this operation? because the hamas didnt stopped firing kasams on israel... non-stop for over a year. THEY ARE ATTACKING! get it in your mind.
its thier fault now they are paying badly for it, the sad thing is that they are getting madder sending more "soldiers" to die.

And Israel is simply playing into their hands- stooping down to their level if you will - by acting the aggressor in return.

This tactic hasn't worked for..well, it hasn't ever worked - why should it make any difference now?

The only way Israel could solve the 'Palestinian problem' with the army would be genocide.  Otherwise they're just acting as chief recruiting seargant for Hamas and the other militant organisations.

[Fear]

we are protecting ourself from them.
thats all.if we didnt act they will find us weak and attack.
the strong will survive.

Originally posted by Corsair
Yes, they're fighting the IDF. And if you were a Palestinian, would you do something differently? Wouldn't you fight for your land and your people instead of fleeing in the face of the enemy? You have just as much pride as they do and you'd do the exact same. Look at yourself in the mirror...Palestinians and Israelis are, at heart, the same.

No. palestinians are like a child that cant admit he lost. u and the rest of the world will do the same as the palastinians if u were in that situation. for that im sure.
and if u were insteed of israel u will do the same acts israel is doing right now.

look at the mirror u are the same as us.

[Corsair]

That's right. All people are the same. The US (where I live) is doing the same in Iraq as Israel is doing in Palestine. If Americans were in the position of the Palestinians, they'd most likely be doing the same as the Palestinians are right now. If Israelis were in the same position as the Palestinians, they'd be doing the same. It's human nature.
The way out is for common sense to override human nature. Level-headed people have to prevail for there to be peace. Otherwise, they'll shoot rockets at you and you'll invade again. That'll piss them off and they'll shoot more rockets at you and then you'll invade again. Around and around we go, with no end in sight and no true beginning...both sides are at fault because you're BOTH like children that can't admit they're wrong. Nobody wins when innocents get killed.

[Fear]

True.. everyword of it i belive.
and u can be sure it will last forever untill 1 side will lose and die.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Fear
we are protecting ourself from them.
thats all.if we didnt act they will find us weak and attack.
the strong will survive.

They think they are protecting themselves from Israel.  From the tanks shells that kill their children, from the bulldozers that crush their houses, and from the helicopters that kill bystanders firing on targets.  This is them 'being strong', taking the same action which you want your own country to take, fighting in whatever way they can.

Originally posted by Fear
No. palestinians are like a child that cant admit he lost. u and the rest of the world will do the same as the palastinians if u were in that situation. for that im sure.
and if u were insteed of israel u will do the same acts israel is doing right now.

look at the mirror u are the same as us.

If I was in the same situation as Israel, I'd rather have a constructive solution rather than a never-ending cycle of violence.  I'd want my government to at least act morally, not stoop to the level of those they are trying to fight.  I'd want to see a country built which wasn't reviled by its every neighbour, and which wasn't constantly being criticised by the international community.

Yes, the Palestinians are losing.  But so is Israel.

No-one wins in this.  history has proven this, time and time again.  Violence begets violence, and you're an idiot if you think this can solve anything.  It won't even stop the rocket attacks, Hama will simply relocate somewhere else, or even just sneak in and out.

And all you end up with is more innocent blood spilled.  See the other side.  Understand them - what they do, why they do it, and how they see you.  And if you can, maybe then there's still hope.

[Fear]

i want the same country as u. but more than everything i want the world to stfu while we do our bussiness. because every time we act we got the france govermant whinig.the world isnt helping nor is media that show us as a bad side and them as a weak child. because they arent and i hope u understand it.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Fear
i want the same country as u. but more than everything i want the world to stfu while we do our bussiness. because every time we act we got the france govermant whinig.the world isnt helping nor is media that show us as a bad side and them as a weak child. because they arent and i hope u understand it.

If you show a bad side, it will be seen by people.  Patriotism is blind.

The world is 'whining', because a civillised government should be able to act in a more moral way.  The world has a right to comment, because every Israeli action like this affects us.  As long as there is a Palestinian situation,  then there is conflict and instability between the western and muslim world.

And because the world wants a fair and equal solution, not a one sided one, you view that as not helping.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Fear
and if u were insteed of israel u will do the same acts israel is doing right now.  

Points at Northern Ireland. No. We wouldn't. The Brits tried it in the past but finally figured out that it didn't work and did something else.

[Sandwich]

Pardon me putting in my 2 pence, but things neeed to be said (once again).

Pence #1: The IDF acts very morally. How many soldiers - reservists, with wives and children back home - lost their lives in Jenin in 2002 because the IDF made a decision to go house-to-house in the search for terrorists and explosives labs, as opposed to just carpet bombing the sh*t out of the whole region, world opinion be damned? I was there, risking my life right alongside every one of my unitmates - all so we could prevent the needless loss of Palestinian life. FFS, sometimes I look at the latest suicide bomber/ess and think that the Israelis care more for the Palestinians than they care for themselves! DAMN them for the hatred they pour into their own children!

Pence #2: Listen, and listen good. Ever since Sharon decided to pull out of the Gaza strip, the terrorist attacks on Gaza strip settlements has increased. I repeat - increased. The Palestinians are getting much of what they claim they want, for Israel to pull out of Gaza, so what do they do? "Hey, the Israelis aren't supposed to be capitulating to our demands! Attack them!"

Why do you think this is? One of two things that I can see:

[list=1]

• Perhaps they want it to look like they are driving Israel out of Gaza. Dumb move. They know quite well that such attacks will only bring about Israeli retaliation and hurt the accomplishment of their claimed demands.
• Or, perhaps they don't want their excuse to commit acts of terrorism against Israel to be removed. Perhaps they attack Israel because they want to wipe us off the map, not because they want "land". Perhaps they hide their true intention amongst statements of "we demand our land back from the Zionist aggressors!" This would be in line with Arafat's refusal of Barak's offer of more than 90% of Judea and Samaria... "Don't give us what we demand! We'll have no excuse to continue trying to wipe you off the map!"

Take your pick.

[aldo_14]

Look, I have nothing against Israel. I understand

 But this strategy has been proven, time and time again, to be completely useless.

[Ghostavo]

If terrorist attacks increase on the Gaza strip, isn't it a palestinian internal affair rather than an Israely one since they don't ask for help (that I know of)?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Ghostavo
If terrorist attacks increase on the Gaza strip, isn't it a palestinian internal affair rather than an Israely one since they don't ask for help (that I know of)?

Well, the Israeli reason is that the Palestinian authority isn't doing enough to stop the attacks.

[Ghostavo]

If the attacks happen in Palestinian territory, how can they protest?

[Fear]

exactly, its sad and it seems it will never end.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by Sandwich
Pardon me putting in my 2 pence, but things neeed to be said (once again).

Pence #1: The IDF acts very morally. How many soldiers - reservists, with wives and children back home - lost their lives in Jenin in 2002 because the IDF made a decision to go house-to-house in the search for terrorists and explosives labs, as opposed to just carpet bombing the sh*t out of the whole region, world opinion be damned? I was there, risking my life right alongside every one of my unitmates - all so we could prevent the needless loss of Palestinian life. FFS, sometimes I look at the latest suicide bomber/ess and think that the Israelis care more for the Palestinians than they care for themselves! DAMN them for the hatred they pour into their own children!

Pence #2: Listen, and listen good. Ever since Sharon decided to pull out of the Gaza strip, the terrorist attacks on Gaza strip settlements has increased. I repeat - increased. The Palestinians are getting much of what they claim they want, for Israel to pull out of Gaza, so what do they do? "Hey, the Israelis aren't supposed to be capitulating to our demands! Attack them!"

Why do you think this is? One of two things that I can see:

[list=1]

• Perhaps they want it to look like they are driving Israel out of Gaza. Dumb move. They know quite well that such attacks will only bring about Israeli retaliation and hurt the accomplishment of their claimed demands.
• Or, perhaps they don't want their excuse to commit acts of terrorism against Israel to be removed. Perhaps they attack Israel because they want to wipe us off the map, not because they want "land". Perhaps they hide their true intention amongst statements of "we demand our land back from the Zionist aggressors!" This would be in line with Arafat's refusal of Barak's offer of more than 90% of Judea and Samaria... "Don't give us what we demand! We'll have no excuse to continue trying to wipe you off the map!"

Take your pick.

Alright, I understand that, but tell me one reason in the world why Israel should not withdraw outright from the West Bank and Gaza, to the Green Line? Anyone who crosses the border then can be shot on sight. Seems like a plan to me, better than holding on to the occupied terrortories at the cost of Israeli lives.

As I've said, Sharon's plan is *not* beneficial for the Palestinians. They get Gaza (maybe, if the settlers and religious authorities allow it), but they lose a big chunk of the West Bank. If you give me $10 and take $20, should I be thankful that you've been so generous and given me $10?

70 Palestinians dead in this new offensive, 40 of which are women and children. You call that humane? It doesn't make it right, but its pretty obvious that the attacks on Sderot came in response to Israel's assasination thing in Syria.