Author Topic: The size of the GTVA  (Read 5818 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
The size of the GTVA
I've been doing some thinking about this, so here goes...

There are roughly 20-23 systems (excluing Sol).... now I'm assuming that around 10-15 have been fully colonised.  Each of these systems probably has 2-3 habitated planets, excluding moons and installations.  

Given Earths current population (5.5 billion rough), and the likelyhood of larger populations being suported in the future over similar sized areas, I'm assuming there are around 5 billion inhabitants on average for each planet (possibly much more).

At an average of 2.5 planets per system, this gives 5x2.5x15 = 187.5 billion.  If you include fronteir worlds  /systems, ships, and installations, this would mean the GTVa has a combined population (Terran Vasudan) of around 200 billion, probabaly more.

Assuming 1% of these people are willing, and able,  to sign up to fight, this would give an armed force of 2 billion soldiers... taking into account planetary defence, this would give the fleet a couple of 10s of million soldiers at least.

And, it would indicate that the NTF had several million active combatants, based on their success against the GTVA.

Finally, given the likely rate of ships, top speed of Argos',  hippocrates, etc at around 20m/s, and the likely capacity of refugee convoys, i would guess that at least 5 billion were killed in Capella.  And also several million in the NTF / Shivan wars.

Also, it would indicate the Lucifer killed at least 10-12 billion with it's attack on Vasuda Prime, as it would be most heavily populated Vasudan planet.

Any comments?

 

Offline phreak

  • Gun Phreak
  • 211
  • -1
you're being too subjective.
Offically approved by Ebola Virus Man :wtf:
phreakscp - gtalk

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
 
Quote
Originally posted by PhReAk:
you're being too subjective.


In what way?

 

Offline Stryke 9

  • Village Person
    Reset count: 4
  • 211
You think too much. But it's OK.

That number would make a fair amount of sense, considering the crew numbers of the capships... it mentions an Orion and Hecate with 10000+ crew, and the Colossus had something like 100,000. At the rate large capships get thrown away like so many used tissues in the game, this is obviously not a very significant number. Roughly 20 Corvettes alone bite the dust in FS2, and each must have about half the crew of a destroyer...

 

Offline Eishtmo

  • The one and only
  • 29
  • The One and Only
    • http://www.angelfire.com/games2/fsarchive/index.html
I disagree on the assumption that each planet had 5 billion people.  Yes, they probably could have supported it, but its unlikely that 5 billion are there.  Some of the major systems might have populations that high, but most probably have only a few million, probably fewer.  Space is still mainly a frontier, and frontiers aren't highly populated.

------------------
I know there is a method, but all I see is madness.
Warpstorm  Bringing Disorder to Chaos, And Eventually We'll Get It Right.

---------

I know there is a method, but all I see is madness.

 

Offline Ace

  • Truth of Babel
  • 212
    • http://www.lordofrigel.com
Core GTVA systems (Delta Serpentis, Beta Aquilae, Vega, Beta Cygni, Ribos, (during Great War) and Antares Terran wise and Sirius, Deneb, Alpha Centuari, and Aldeberran for the Vasudans [Vasuda Prime is more then likely a core system due to infrastructure built in orbit after the Great War, but the planet itself is still being reclaimed])

These systems I'd estimate would have populations total in the 3-6 billion range, with the population scattered over several planets in the system.

On Capella, I'd agree with the estimate that 2 billion or so died, and that the other 3 billion were evacuated to nearby systems.

Infrastructure would be able to support the exodus, though the rebuilding of the former NTF axis would be tedious.

------------------
Ace
Staff member FreeSpace Watch
 http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/

[This message has been edited by Ace (edited 08-02-2001).]
Ace
Self-plagiarism is style.
-Alfred Hitchcock

 

Offline Nico

  • Venom
    Parlez-vous Model Magician?
  • 212
I'm not sure that vasuda, even if it was the fishies homeworld, was the most populated of their planets. It was just a block of sand and undrinkable water. I think the vasudan population expanded really only when they began colonizing other planets.
Well, that's what I think anyway.
SCREW CANON!

 

Offline Stryke 9

  • Village Person
    Reset count: 4
  • 211
Make sense, considering ho thay recovered so fast, thei homeworld must not have been a huge loss after all. However, you'd think a species evolved in a desert would prefer desert to somewhere... not desert.

 

Offline Nico

  • Venom
    Parlez-vous Model Magician?
  • 212
yeah, but vasuda was said to be a tough place even for vasudan standards
SCREW CANON!

 

Offline Shrike

  • Postadmin
  • 211
    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp
 
Quote
Originally posted by Ace:
On Capella, I'd agree with the estimate that 2 billion or so died, and that the other 3 billion were evacuated to nearby systems.

Didn't Capella have a population of 250 million?

And stop to think for a sec..... how massive an undertaking do you think evacuating 3 BILLION people would be, over a few days?  Seriously, we're talking building-Rome-in-a-day level here.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Stryke 9

  • Village Person
    Reset count: 4
  • 211
So would building a star-killing fleet of 5000000000 juggernauts. And the Terrans showed in FS2 that compared to the Shivans they were no pansies about doing tough stuff.

 

Offline Shrike

  • Postadmin
  • 211
    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp
..... And that has what relevance to the discussion?
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Stryke 9

  • Village Person
    Reset count: 4
  • 211
Impossible things are possible in the imaginary future, man. Logistics do not apply.

 

Offline Ypoknons

  • Ancient
  • 28
    • http://www.xwaupgrade.com
I would agree with Ace on the 3-6 billion range, but whether that would be the whole system combined or scattered I'd say the former, and there probably wouldn't be many habitable planets in one system... I mean, both Earth and Vasuda had only one, whole Capella had what, around 3 juding from the command briefs?

As for Capella... Wouldn't 250 million seem a little low for a whole system? Well, yes, they probably convoys every... What did we see in the final mission? 5 minutes? Then let's say a convy of maybe 3 Argos and a Hippo and Tritons every 30mins to 60 mins (when they weren't that desperate)? Ouch..
. They only had a few days. And some of the ships were lost too. So then assume 2 convoys every hour (don't forget that command had to find some escorts for them too!) of 3000 people... That would be 144,000 a day... Give them 5 days and 720,000 would be close. Ow. Then there were probably more than that, but it balances out those who had bad luck and were killed trying to escape. That means either billions were killed or else the each convoy could carry more refegees thank I could guess they can or else a lot more conoys.

A possibly more effective system would possbily to cram a few onto warships, but that would have its own sets of headaches too.

[This message has been edited by Ypoknons (edited 08-03-2001).]
Long time ago, you see, there was this thing called the VBB and... oh, nevermind.

 

Offline Eishtmo

  • The one and only
  • 29
  • The One and Only
    • http://www.angelfire.com/games2/fsarchive/index.html
250 mill actually sounds about right to me.  After all, the system was colonized relativly recently (especially compared to Sol and Delta Serprentis).  And remember, there is a thriving space trade going on, so there were probably lots of civilian transports, colony ships, bulk freighters, ect, that we never saw.

As for Vasuda Prime, it wasn't a major world.  Near the beginning of FS1, the Vasudans were actually on the verge of losing it.  So its likely most of their key industrial and govermental structures had long since left the planet (think Soviet Union, WWII).  When the Lucifer wasted it, it took nothing for the Vasudans to get right back up and get going.  Earth was a much harder loss, as it was the industrial and govermental center of the GTA.

------------------
I know there is a method, but all I see is madness.
Warpstorm  Bringing Disorder to Chaos, And Eventually We'll Get It Right.

---------

I know there is a method, but all I see is madness.

 

Offline Setekh

  • Jar of Clay
  • 215
    • Hard Light Productions
 
Quote
Originally posted by Ypoknons:
Give them 5 days and 720,000 would be close.

That's about right, for the area that Alpha was sent to take care of. IIRC, the third wave of transports that came through on Alpha's watch was the last, which would mean that there couldn't have been that many more - however, I'd have to play the mission again to be sure. Sandwich should know...

And Eish is also correct in that Capella was very much a border system and as such, probably much lower populated than systems closer to the GTVA core. If Capella were not a border system and had more people in it, I doubt they would have been willing to blow the nodes off it.
- Eddie Kent Woo, Setekh, Steak (of Steaks), AWACS. Seriously, just pick one.
HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS, now V3.0. Bringing Modders Together since January 2001.
THE HARD LIGHT ARRAY. Always makes you say wow.

 

Offline Sandwich

  • Got Screen?
  • Administrator
  • 212
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Brainzipper
 
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh:
IIRC, the third wave of transports that came through on Alpha's watch was the last, which would mean that there couldn't have been that many more - however, I'd have to play the mission again to be sure. Sandwich should know...


Which mission is that, Exodus? SM3-06. Lemme check.

EDIT: Doesn't look like it's Exodus. Maybe the final mission?

------------------
"He who laughs last thinks slowest."
"Just becase you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
"To err is human; to really screw up you need a computer."
Creator of the Sandvich Bar, the CapShip Turret Upgrade, the Complete FS2 Ship List and the System Backgrounds List (all available from the site)

[This message has been edited by sandwich (edited 08-04-2001).]
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Crazy_Ivan80

  • Node Warrior
  • 27
250 million for Capella sounds right. Although an industrial centre is was colonised only recently.
But for the rest of the planets, the estimates seem too high. Humans only aquired subspace-technology a short while before the T-V War (it says something like that in the FS Reference bible). So lets assume the Terrans had interstellar capacities for about 80 to 100 years. This is still too short a time to create populations that range into the billions.
It came from outer space! What? Dunno, but it's going back on the next flight!
Proud member of Hard Light Productions. The last, best hope for Freespace...
:ha:

 

Offline Shrike

  • Postadmin
  • 211
    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp
Not even, more like 30-50 before Sol was cut off.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Ace

  • Truth of Babel
  • 212
    • http://www.lordofrigel.com
I don't believe that any solid figures were given on Capella's population.

Also the evacutation began at the moment the Sathanas was first sighted in the nebula and began moving towards GTVA space.

The time between that encounter and the collapse of the nodes I believe was at least a week and a half.

I'll need to check, but each convoy ship carried at least several hundred thousand or so.

Between the amounts of ships per convoy, and the relative large amount of time, a figure of slightly under a half a billion I believe seems reasonable.

Also on the amount of convoys per hour, I'd assume that the evacutation would be going at a slightly slower pace then shown in the final mission, but not by a large amount.

So per hour I'd estimate 12 convoys. (since in 10 minutes we saw 3)

The reason why my before figure on Capella was so high was because I forgot that it was a less populated rim system.

Even then Capella must be a mid-range system to be allocated it's own fleet. (which the Aquitaine was flagship of)

------------------
Ace
Staff member FreeSpace Watch
 http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/
Ace
Self-plagiarism is style.
-Alfred Hitchcock