[Tiara]

I'd get so stoned I wouldn't even care if I was shot...

Seriously though, I'd pack my valuebles (which obviously will include my laptop with sattelite connection), get my car and drive off. Untill I reach France. Then I'll realize that that really isn't a good place for safety and drive on to Switzerland. The Swiss always remain neutral.

Really, I couldn't care enough to fight and put my life on the line for my country. I care about me and my close relatives/friends and for them I would put my life on the line. But not to charge into a lost cause just so I can be proud or if it's the right thing to do.

Pride and being right means exactly **** if you're dead.

[Fergus]

None of us would have any idea what we would do.  War is a brutal nasty affair and I would want to keep as far away from it as possible, if anything resistance of any sort would only make things worse.  We have all seen what invaders do in a situation with guerrilas, they bomb the **** out of everything nearby, civies or not.  You also have to look at it this way, if you are being invaded, the opposing force is (stronlgy dislikes next word) evil and the 'civilised' world is not helping your country you need to think why.  But no doubt my post is about to move to some far and distant land.

[Swamp_Thing]

I think it´s obvious this thread is supposed to make people think just why ordinary iraqis (and palestinians) are fighting this war. About 90% of us said we would fight the invaders. Why should they be any diferent?
And those who say they would join the invader, you are kidding yourself. As soon as you saw the first bombs hitting your next door neighbour, you would be the first in line at the local weapons cache, getting a gun and a uniform.

[Flaser]

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
I think it´s obvious this thread is supposed to make people think just why ordinary iraqis (and palestinians) are fighting this war. About 90% of us said we would fight the invaders. Why should they be any diferent?
And those who say they would join the invader, you are kidding yourself. As soon as you saw the first bombs hitting your next door neighbour, you would be the first in line at the local weapons cache, getting a gun and a uniform.

The bastard who's been partying all night and spilt it on my doorstep - which I had to clean up?

It's quite idealistic that all citizens are loving and/or supporting each other - my nation has a long history of ****ing over eachother / calling the shots against your neighbours and hand them over to the actual secret police. - Actual the same happened in France during WWII or the whole Eastern block.

As soon as the **** hits the fan, your people will act in pretty much the same manner.

Armed and Guided resistance in a situation like that? Dream on....

Beside - about the split/murdered/shot ect. people - you can be desenitized to death really fast.
(Actually I already am thanks to all the impressions I had of it so far, beside the smell nothing can really upset me (on a purly fact level, emotional drama is another thing, but people you don't know at all rarely draw empathy), the later only guts my stomach but that's it.)

...and beside the true SD and SS like maniacs - who are INCAPABLE of forming a good army - most soldiers wouldn't do that to civilians unless they tortured/killed/maimed their buddies....which is what partizans often do. In their war frenzy these patriots are often just as bad these facist/ect... maniacs they fight against...

[redmenace]

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
I think it´s obvious this thread is supposed to make people think just why ordinary iraqis (and palestinians) are fighting this war. About 90% of us said we would fight the invaders. Why should they be any diferent?
And those who say they would join the invader, you are kidding yourself. As soon as you saw the first bombs hitting your next door neighbour, you would be the first in line at the local weapons cache, getting a gun and a uniform.

First off it is a collection of foreign fighters and Iraqis. The iraqis consisting of former bathists and republican gaurd. These also including civilians that are being whipped up into a frenzy by Sunni Clerics. The point I am illuding to is that Iraq is not clean cut example. What Sunnis are doing now is not patriotism but out of sheer fear of what will happen to them now that they are no longer in power. I say this based on the fact that Shiites, that are not blowing things up, are happy about the election.

[Grey Wolf]

I think I'd try to flee the country, most likely across the St. Lawrence to Canada....

[Swamp_Thing]

Originally posted by redmenace

 based on the fact that Shiites, that are not blowing things up, are happy about the election.

You don´t read the newspapers too often, do you?
Who do you think Mohktada Al Sadr was/is? Go watch the news, then comeback and try again.

PS:Foreign fighters, you say? That´s good for another laugh. If i were to guesstimate, i would say the foreigners account for less than 1% of the iraqi fighting forces.
I would sugest that you stop listening to the White House for field reports, and start listening to actual iraqis, actually living in Iraq and not some office in downtown Washington.

Try this for a start:
http://www.justinalexander.net/iraq/

Now i´ll go take a pill for the pain, you made me laugh so hard my stomach akes!!

[Bobboau]

you have no better idea what's going on than him, anything you can site I'll site another fifty that will say the opposite and the only thing that can discredit them is that they disagree with what you beleive.

[Swamp_Thing]

I grant you that no one here knows exactlly what is going on overthere, that´s true. But i also remind you that there is only one truth to anything, and that only one side can be right. Wich side is that? Well, i think i´m in a better position to judge that, seeing as i´m in daily contact with iraqis, that i am a Iraqi Watch volunteer, and that i took the trouble to actually read what other iraqis are saying of what´s going on over there. Perhaps you choose to believe someone sitting in Washington, eating hamburgers and feeling cosy and warm in his air conditioned room. But me i don´t. I rather trust the word of hundreds of bloggers that post daily on the net. I rather trust them when they say how they are STILL without electricity for 2/3 of the day. I rather believe them when they say that the "foreign fighters" story is just a story.
Don´t take my word for it, go read it for yourself. Email them, talk to them, listen to them. Read their diaries, and their obituaries too.
Open the link i posted, and visit any of a hundred blogs that iraqis write on everyday, and then comeback and share what you have discovered. I dare you.

[Pilot Of The US]

i remember a quote from a movie, and it goes like this..."Your duty is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his".

I'd strap explosives to kangaroos. Also ive always wanted to use radio controled planes (big ones) to drop bombs.

[aldo_14]

Woo....politics.  Can't say i can be arsed with all this today, tho.

Didn't the Pentagon recently release a report commenting on how they had somewhat misunderestimated the strength of Islamic fundamentalism+former regime in leading to a resistance?  i.e. that the insurgency / resistance / rebellion was 'more Iraqi' than anticipated?  I'm sure I've seen some reports, etc, that indicate that the majority of insurgents killed have been Iraqi.

[Flaser]

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
But i also remind you that there is only one truth to anything, and that only one side can be right. Wich side is that?

SIP

 

That is one of the greatest sources of white man's ingnorance.

"There is such thing as THE truth, only A truth."
(Antal Szerb, Hungarian writter and humanist)

I don't think though that you don't have a valid point though, I merly point out that there is NO ONLY or EXCLUSIVE point to any issue.

What it boils down to is that to each person is his own truth based on his morals, so it's kinda hard to make or state a HUMAN or universal right thing....especially if you go into thought on the matter of wheter the closest/easiest good thing is the best thing for someone.
(Like imminent pacification and strong foreign influence - no, I don't support the rebells I'm just merly sick of the RIGHTSOUS warmonging propaganda from both sides.)

[Swamp_Thing]

Originally posted by Flaser


That is one of the greatest sources of white man's ingnorance.

 

I don´t mean philosofical truth, i mean absolute truth.
In the question posed above "Is the iraqi rebellion made by iraqis or foreign fighters", there can only be one true answer. Either yes, or no. Right or wrong, black or white. Those are what we consider absolute truths. The philosofic part of "truth" has no relevance  here.
We are not discussing wether they are right or not, or wether they are entitled to fight or not. All i wanted cleared up, was wether the iraqi revolution was actually iraqi at heart, and not multinational as the White House claims. And i think any well informed person will know the answer to that.

Let´s not forget, that the body making these "foreign fighters" claims, is also the same body that says electricity was restored. It´s the same body that claims the US army is not killing civilians, and that there is no widespread torture in US ran Iraqi prisons.
It´s actually quite funny to see americans demonizing iraqis, saying "they are monsters, we are liberating them", and yet if placed in the same position they would do exactlly the same. How many americans would sit still, and dance and cheer in the streets at the passing of, for example, russian invader tanks? Or canadian? Or mexican? Would you feel glad that your cities are razed to the ground by non-stop high altitude bombing runs? Would you give praize for their coming? Or would you just blow away the first russian soldier you came across?
If you´re afraid, or you don´t want to die, or you have children to look after, you will probably just stay home and do nothing, but even then you would still feel angry and desperate, even if you don´t actually do anything about it. The majority of iraqis might not be engaging in open battle, but that doesn´t mean they are happy to see the US army outside their front porch!

[Clave]

[Sandwich]

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mitac]

My people have a history of invading other countries in a rather uncivilised ways, so...

Seriously, I like that option of either Australia or some skandinavian country.

[willy_principal]

well well let's see...
i'm quite strong...no military training..some military knowledge... never touched a gun...........little idea of how to shoot one...(i'm a UBER fan of military RTS games and the second World War....and i have some knowledge in tactics....i read a short book about the Manevering War [<--i'm not really sure if i correctly translated this])...
I think i would stay quiet in my home until some resistance is formed...then....infiltrate somehow the enemy lines and supply the resistance with information...
...i wouldn't touch a gun, i think........except if any of my relatives/friends die or get wounded cause of the invaders...........then i would get mad and do as much hurt as i can to those bastards...

[Cabbie]

run...run like hell.

[Falcon]

Hmmmmmm if an enemy invaded my area......

I'd poison the water supply, become an arsonist (sp?) setting various enemy military structers ablaze, build an fruitcake gun, and start playing random polka songs on a loud speaker while reading vogon poetry.  

And then the real torture begins............

[Gank]

Originally posted by redmenace
First off it is a collection of foreign fighters and Iraqis. The iraqis consisting of former bathists and republican gaurd.  

According to the Iraqi government the US installed, theres 200,000 of them:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4145585.stm
Doesnt really matter who they are, you're ****ed.

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
You mean Sven Hassel, right? Great stuff. I´ve read 3 of his books, "Chariots of Hell" being the best.
Sven Hassel was a german soldier, who fought on both fronts. The books are the diaries of his days at the front.

You know they're fiction right?

"The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiques are belated, insincere, incomplete. Things have been far worse than we have been told, our administration more bloody and inefficient that the public knows... We are today not far from a disaster."

T.E. Lawrence 1920.