[aldo_14]

Originally posted by kietotheworld
They should be forced to go into the missionsary position with a dog.

Happy now aldo?

No.  I clearly said joke.

Frankly, I find your lack of double-entendres profoundly disappointing.

[Liberator]

Originally posted by Getter Robo G
weird stuff

[Sapphire]

Originally posted by Gank


Theres no point in keeping reading, it refutes your point that the jews let jesus preach And how can you still argue hes a jew when you've already said hes not?????????????

 

1.  John 18:20 if you dare read it. >> Refutes your claim that they didn't let him preach.  yes, they stopped him when he was becoming so popular.....but he had been teaching.  And by Jewish law....he had to be Jewish in order to teach in the temple.

2. Show me where I said he wasn't a Jew... I said that being born in Judea wasn't what made him a Jew.  Show me...I implore you.

3.  You've ignored the evidence and reasons that I have given....it would be a waste of time for me to bring up the rest.  You've already made up your mind, I won't confuse you with facts.

Now enough of this foolishness out of respect for those that are tired of it...

Vyper:  even us lepers need some luv'n

[ShadowWolf_IH]

ok anything will support your arguement if you take it out of context.

here's the deal, let me see if i explain this.

Christ taught in the temple, by law he had to be of jewish faith for that to happen.

Christ began to be proclaimed as the messiah, who was fortold in the olod testament.  Yes...Jews fortold his coming.  So what happened when he proclaimed this too loudly?  He was argued with.  What happened then?  People began to believe in him.  then, he was no longer allowed to teach in the temple.  So he went elsewhere.  Then they decided to kill him.  Now the people who believed that he was not the son of God, but adhered to the old faith, as taught in the old testament, they are jewish.  Those who believed him to be the son of God, were christians, but....considering where all of this took place, i would have to say that a fair number of them were of Jewish descent.  So did the Jews kill Christ?  no they did not.  How can i say this?  it was part of God's plan.  at any time, he could have called forth a thousand angels to take him from the cross.  he didn't, even when he felt that his father had forsaken him, even when he felt that spear enter his side.  Why?  Because (and this is in red my bible, so i think that if they highlighted it it must be important)  his greatest commandment to his followers was "Love thy Neighbor".  Why?
Because that's what he was, the love of a father being poured out to his children.  Much the same as parents will tell the kids to stop fighting, the things that they fight over is no big deal.  Christ was more than a man, he was more than the son of God.  He was given to us, to kill, to go to hell, and to get the keys.  Everyone knows the verse, he is love.  not the crap we have here on earth that we call love, but perfect and pure love.  It was his plan for his son to die.  

I hope this clarifies things.  Remember, you may not believe this to be fact, but i believe it to be truth.  

about the nuns....for Christians to behave in that manner is reprehensible.  For people who we look at for guidance in the Christian realm to break Christ's greatest commandment to us, is an abomination.  They should be excommunicated.

Most of the people i know of who are Christians, ie, those who know God in thier heart, as oposed to people who profess to be christians, ie those who know who God is, would never allow this to happen.  Instead, these nuns are simply people who know who God is, and do not in fact know God, in other words, while they profess christianity, they are not in my opinion Christians.

I know that people will pick this apart, and i won't argue with you.  What you want is fact, what i have given is truth, the two are not one in the same.

[Gank]

Originally posted by Sapphire
1.  John 18:20 if you dare read it. >> Refutes your claim that they didn't let him preach.  yes, they stopped him when he was becoming so popular.....but he had been teaching.  And by Jewish law....he had to be Jewish in order to teach in the temple.

If I dare??? Lets see, your saying they did let him preach then they stopped him, in other words they didnt let him preach And they didnt stop him because he was becoming popular, they stopped him because what he was preaching was not Judaism.

Originally posted by Sapphire
2. Show me where I said he wasn't a Jew... I said that being born in Judea wasn't what made him a Jew.  Show me...I implore you.

Seeing how your "imploring me" here ya go:

Is Jesus a Jew now? well......I don't think Jesus or God the Father considers themselves to be a part of any donomination or religion

You say hes a god then argue that hes a jew

Originally posted by Sapphire
3.  You've ignored the evidence and reasons that I have given....it would be a waste of time for me to bring up the rest.  You've already made up your mind, I won't confuse you with facts.

I think you're just confusing yourself.

Originally posted by Sapphire
Now enough of this foolishness out of respect for those that are tired of it...

No.

[Flipside]

You know, sometimes I wonder if 'Not spilling your seed on barren Earth' should be applied to preaching as well as to sex.

All you can do, as a missionary, is help where you can and try to be as good a version of what you view a Christian to be. You will probably find that those actions in and of themselves will soften peoples hearts far more towards your faith than any amount of blackmail.

[Gank]

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

- Mahatma Gandhi

[ShadowWolf_IH]

gank are you going to admit that he did at one time teach in the temple?

that's all i want to know.

[Gank]

I havent said he didnt What I have said is that he did and was driven out because he wasnt preaching judaism. Thjerefore he cannot be considered a jew based on this.

I am utterly shocked that christians can actually argue that their god is a member of a religion which denies he is a god. The stupidity of it is astonishing.

[Sapphire]

SW, he will never answer that.  I tried.  I have never ever seen anyone so unable to admit he was wrong that he avoids all questions that might show that he's mistaken.

If I were to muse here a bit....i believe it stems from hatred towards Jews.  Therefore, we cannot and will not look at Jesus as even being vaguely related to the Jews (other than he had the misfortune of being born in their native land).  But thats just my Opinion.

Regardless...ya, those missionaries weren't walking the walk by holding the Gospel ransom.

[edit]  I stand corrected.    So if he was allowed to teach (not to mention to be in that area of the temple) does it not stand to reason, he had to have been Jewish in order to do this??

[ShadowWolf_IH]

ok so you agree that he did at one time teach in the temple.  

is it part of jewish law that only a jew may teach in the temple?

[Gank]

Originally posted by Sapphire
If I were to muse here a bit....i believe it stems from hatred towards Jews.  Therefore, we cannot and will not look at Jesus as even being vaguely related to the Jews (other than he had the misfortune of being born in their native land).  But thats just my Opinion.

Ahh, play the anti-semitism card, how big of you. Resorting to this sort of thing is a sure sign of an arguement falling apart. If you'll reread my posts you'll see that I've said Jesus cant be considered a jew if you are a christian, non christians like myself can argue it based on a number of things.

Originally posted by Sapphire
[edit]  I stand corrected.    So if he was allowed to teach (not to mention to be in that area of the temple) does it not stand to reason, he had to have been Jewish in order to do this??

Percieved as jewish. Seeing how he was kicked out of the temple, does it not stand to reason that what he was preaching was not actually judaism?

I cant actually believe you're still arguing this, seeing how you've already said he isnt a jew

Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH
ok so you agree that he did at one time teach in the temple.  

is it part of jewish law that only a jew may teach in the temple?

Urrgh:

Originally posted by Gank
What I have said is that he did and was driven out because he wasnt preaching judaism. Therefore he cannot be considered a jew based on this.
 

[Sapphire]

You've shown that aside from being able to pull a scripture out of context...you have no understanding of what the bible was about from cover to cover.   Furthermore, because its obvious that you have a personal agenda to just argue, I have nothing further to say to you.

[ShadowWolf_IH]

What I have said is that he did

and thereby you admit that he did once teach in the temple.  now do you also agree that by jewish law only a jew may teach in the temple?  stop avoiding it and answer the question.

[Gank]

Originally posted by Sapphire
You've shown that aside from being able to pull a scripture out of context...you have no understanding of what the bible was about from cover to cover.   Furthermore, because its obvious that you have a personal agenda to just argue, I have nothing further to say to you.

Good, because you shot your own argument down a few pages ago. Bout time you realised it.

ShadowWolf_IH, Luther was a monk in a Catholic monastery, I suppose you think this makes him Catholic? I've already pointed out the flaw in what you're saying, I'm not going to do it again.

[ShadowWolf_IH]

you didn';t point out a damned thing.  you in fact made the point that christ did in fact teach in a temple, you don't want to admit that it was jewish law that only a jew could teach in the temple.  

you won't admit that statement because you know that if you do it negates your entire arguement.  

Christ taught in a the temple,
only a jew may teach in the temple
those are the facts, and they are not disputed.  

you have already admitted to the first half of that statement, and you know that if you admit to the second half it negates your entire arguement.  Your avoidance of the question also negates your arguement.  either answer the question, or shut the hell up.

[Gank]

Urrrgh, how stupid can you be?

Your arguement:

Christ taught in a jewish temple.
Only Jews can teach in jewish temples.
Therefore Christ a Jew

My arguement:
Christ taught in a jewish temple.
Only Jews can teach in jewish temples.
Christ kicked out of temple
Therefore Christ not a jew.

Its not me whos ignoring the question, its you whos ignoring the fact that he was kicked out of the temple. You are basing your arguement on only part of what happened, not me. Your whole ****ing arguement is bollox anyways, you're claiming your god is a member of a religion which says he isnt a god, you're disproving your own beliefs you twat.

[ShadowWolf_IH]

so then by your arguement, anyone who was ever kicked out of any religeon was never a part of that religeon?  that is your arguement.  that is what you are stating.  

so then by your arguement pec was not a part of this community.  yet we do have proof that he was a part of this community, but no longer is.  

have you gotten the point yet?  christ was, at one time a jew.  some jews decided that he had not fulfilled all of the prophecies and therefore was not the messiah whose coming was foretold.  they kicked him out.  that does not negate the fact that he was a jew.

what i don't understand at this point is why you cannot simply make your point without losing your cool and resorting to the all important name calling.  is something the matter?  why so defensive all of a sudden?

[Gank]

Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH
so then by your arguement, anyone who was ever kicked out of any religeon was never a part of that religeon?  that is your arguement.  that is what you are stating.  

I am not saying that, I am saying he is not part of that religion now.

Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH
so then by your arguement pec was not a part of this community.  yet we do have proof that he was a part of this community, but no longer is.  

So he is not part of this community then?

Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH
have you gotten the point yet?  christ was, at one time a jew.  some jews decided that he had not fulfilled all of the prophecies and therefore was not the messiah whose coming was foretold.  they kicked him out.  that does not negate the fact that he was a jew.

urrrghh so we're going from claiming he was a jew to claiming he was a jew at one stage. Ok, I was brought up catholic, I now no longer hold catholic beliefs. Therefore I am not a catholic. Very very simple thing to understand. Jesus may have been of the jewish faith at one stage, but at the end of the day he wasnt. He turned his back on Judaism, it turned its back on him, whatever way you want to put it at the end of the day he did not die a jew.

Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH
what i don't understand at this point is why you cannot simply make your point without losing your cool and resorting to the all important name calling.  is something the matter?  why so defensive all of a sudden?

Because I've had to make my point repeatedly And its offensive, not defensive

[ShadowWolf_IH]

ok so now you are admitting that jesus was a jew?  not is, but was.  in much the same way that you were catholic, but no longer are?  That was the entire crux of the arguement.  No one was stating that he died an accepted member of the jewish faith.  and something else...he did worship his father as the jews did.  which is really all that religeon is.  Christ was a jew.  

now was christ a jew at the time of his death?  that is a philosophical question i think.  I think that even in his death christ was worshipping his father as per the jewish traditions, and that he was a jew, however he was not accepted by those who were clinging to the belief that he was not the messiah.  so while he was no longer accepted in the jewish faith as a brother, he did practice the jewish faith.   he wasn't worshipping himself in that faith, but was worshipping his father, which is who the jews worship.  

i think that difference in our arguements is one of time.  i am saying was, you are saying is.  Pec WAS, is my arguement, Pec IS NOT, is your arguement.  But Pec was a member.  you can't discount that.  Pec IS NOT a member, i cannot discount that.  but to say that pec was not a member would infer that he had never been a member, and that is not true.

to say that jesus was not a jew would infer that he had never been a jew, which is also not true.  jesus didn't turn his back on judaism, he turned his back on the church.  Those are two different things.  turning your back on the church is not the same as turning your back on your faith.  

so as far as i am concerned, christ died practicing the jewish faith.  which was the worship of his father, and the traditions inherent to that worship.  which is to say, in my opinion, christ died a jew.  just not an accepted one.