Author Topic: ETAC in Inferno?  (Read 7946 times)

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Offline -Norbert-

  • 211
Thats included in the "ect, ect" :p

 
you know, ive got a couple missions that i made and in the briefing, i put in that the Gigas is a one of a kind ship, and is over ten thousand years old. It is the Shivan superweapon. It cannot be killed. It cannot be stopped. It can only be slowed down.

As for the Shivans themselves, i like to think of them as the first civilization in the galaxy that achieved spaceflight. This makes them a real galactic megapower - they expanded through subspace jump node after jump node for millenia, crushing everything in their path in order to assure the supremacy of their species.

I have another mission where the Allies - the GTVA and the Ancients push through the Shivan lines and encounter a massive habitat (SI Hara).

That's what i think of the Shivans.

High Max said something about seeing the homeworld of the Predators. Have you seen AVP? It shows you their starships :D
it also goes into the story behind AVP - how the Predators found a "backwater planet" (earth) and used it to breed the "perfect prey". I suppose you could interpret that as they view Earth as a backwater planet, that their homeworld lies a LOT closet to the center of the galaxy.
Stardust, the Sword of Vengeance[A starship combat addict]

 
as for the lucifer fleet in FS1, maybe that fleet was just an "expeditionary force" for the Shivans wanting to map out what had happend in our area of space since they drove the ancients away from this part of space...
and when they lost contact with the lucifer, maybe they were all, like, "oh ****, guys, we are under attack!" and sent the sathanas fleet to our part of space to clean our chronometers.....
Stardust, the Sword of Vengeance[A starship combat addict]

 

Offline Ghost

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Here's a simple reason why nobody should do anything concerning the Shivan's background: Volition didn't. This is why I don't like MindGames or whatever that campaign is...

Stardust: the Shivans are the great destroyers. For reasons of their own, they kill any subspace-faring species... the species you described  I see as the Ancients, until the Shivans happened upon them.
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really? whoa. seems to me it would be the other way around, but to each his own...

Quote
Here's a simple reason why nobody should do anything concerning the Shivan's background: Volition didn't

Exactly. But you can still dream....
Stardust, the Sword of Vengeance[A starship combat addict]

 

Offline Mav

  • 28
  • location: Shivan fleet - closing in on GTVA space
Quote
Originally posted by Trivial Psychic

I prefer to believe, that any points where GTVA space and Shivan space connect, are in the very fringes of Shivan space, and as such, it takes some time for the Shivans to amass their bigger, deadlier weapons, and get them into the engagement.


That's what I think to be the most reasonable point, too.

And for the Lucifer: I kinda think of it as a Shivan science-/explorer-vessel, sorts of. :D


[edit: Oops, didn't realize this thread being rather old - sorry :nervous: ]
« Last Edit: March 04, 2005, 05:05:36 pm by 1266 »
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Offline Murderous Species

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I completely agree with leaving Shivans an enigma, after all, it is not death we fear, but the unknown.

High Max:
Predators' (or, as the call themselves, Yautja) homeworld is a cold, hard planet where living is very difficult.
Predators often fight creatures far stronger than they are (they developed advanced technology to counter that) and they live on top of vertical structures like trees (see how good climbers the are, and how they prefer tall buildings).
The world itself is far from their home star (Predators can see almost nothing but a red screen, because almost no light enters tha atmosphere) , but somehow it is a hot planet (Predators prefer hunting when the heat is turned on)

Alien planet is esencially water, since Aliens (Xenomorphs) are very good swimmers, and the landmass is filled with mountains, since they are very good climbers. Aliens may not be the main species of their world, since they are parasites, this means they coexist with more dangerous, smarter or bigger animals.
Aliens' world is prone to intense climatical variations, since Aliens adapt to the weather they are very quickly.
Also, Aliens have an ability called "assimilation", and allows Aliens to combine their DNA with other species by Facehugging a specimen (this explains the PredAliens)

Aliens may coexist with Predators
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Offline StratComm

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I don't have any idea why that could possibly be relevant, but both of those homeworld descriptions contain at least one logical impossibility.  Mostly aquatic with lots of mountains seems highly counterintuitive, as does a cold planet that is somehow hot.  And "Xenomorphs" refers to an alien that can assume different traits from one form to another, be it by mutation or host DNA assimilation or whatnot.  Their species name reflects that, not vice versa.  And because you never know exactly where "Aliens" came from (they were first found on an alien ship of unknown origin, after all) actually seems to lend credence to their being some form of biological weapon that was bred for wiping out other races.  Also, I can't see Aliens (or Predators) not being the top of their planet's food chain in any circumstances, as either they got where they are by domination or anything any more badass would have wiped them out long before.

Oh, yeah.  There's a future for ETAC somewhere in the :v: plotline for FS3, if it still exists in any form.  That is certain.  Unfortunately, without knowing what that was, it's better off left out of fan campaigns IMHO, no matter how quasi-official we make them.
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline Singh

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imho, there are problems with explaining ETAK, but tehre are ones that are associated with NOT explaining it either....mostly because since this is after FS2, the GTVA would have at least looked into or tried and duplicating the ETAK technology. Then tehre is the issue of the shivans getting access to allied channels (as seen in FS2) with proper usage of ETAK, why dont they try to communicate? We know they are capable of advanced tactics - psychological warfare is not THAT advanced IMO. This is especially when, at teh least, they can use the signals to draw in people.

But its a case of the lesser of two evils, perhaps. In the end, choosing not to explain or touch on the effects of ETAK yields lesser headaches when it comes to plot :p
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Offline Woomeister

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Using ETAC would start to unravel the mystery of the Shivans since we would have to give them character. Do they have an opinion on the GTVA? What of Bosch? do they even consider the GTVA a threat? Why blow up Capella? Why send the Lucifer and not 80 Saths? Why not send beam capable ships against the PVN and GTA? Why not send more ships after the Lucifer was destroyed? Why not send a Gigas instead of the first Sath against the Colossus? Why not send ships from Fomalhaut during FS2?

I like my Shivans big, nasty and mysterious :nod:

 

Offline mr.WHO

  • 29
Quote
Or maybe they enjoy a good and quite fair fight from time to time rather than just blowing every opponent out of the sky with the first salvo.

I like this the most, I solve many plot holes.
Lucifer fleet (multiple fleets)- a test/recon fleet that have to find a species that are able to defeat it, or exterminate the weak species (but not the weak in terms of technology, they didn't attacked Terrans or Vasudans in their initial stage of subspace exploration- they attack after they noticed that T and V are ready for "test"), this also solve a question why GTVA didn't ecouter any more of Lucifer class.
T and V pass the test, round two.

During Fs2 it was a "illegal round 1,5" because GTVA found shivans when they didn't want to fight yet (because GTVA wasn't ready for round two). So they sent 80 Sathanas class to blow Capella to cut off GTVA from Shivan territory, they also sent so many Juggernauts to say "whooaa, get lost, you don't stand a chance".
During Capella battle Shivans noticed that GTVA understand the lesson (GTVA begun to blow up the nodes) to they didn't send any more ships beyond Capella. They also captured Bosh as a science experiment to learn about our species (because during rounds 1 & 1,5 we show that we are interesting enough to learn about us- as long as we are able to pass more tests.

Inferno- round 2. :D

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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ETAK is not the plot monster you people seem to think.

Reading someone's mail does not, necessarily, tell you everything there is to know about them. Particularly when you're not reading all, or even most, of their mail. At best ETAK can only be used for transmissions in the same system, and the distance is probably much shorter. Reading operational communications will give you operational information, not giant overarching crap like people here seem to believe. It tells you the what, not the why. These ships are going here, not whose idea it was and why they thought it was a good one.

The best comparison would probably be WWII and the solving of the Engima during the Battle of the Atlantic. It was often of little use, spotty, frequently the British drew totally wrong conclusions from it ("morale collapse" is a recurring theme in British analysis of Engima intercepts, but it never really happened), and was completely useless in a tactical sense. Now take that example and make it so that only the signals from the forces in the field back to base, and between forces in the field, can be read, and make drawing the wrong conclusions even more likely to account for the fact the Shivans are, well, alien, and you have a reasonable idea of what ETAK would be like.
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Offline Murderous Species

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Do they have an opinion on the GTVA?

Shivans? Maybe, maybe not...
What of Bosch?

Another one thinking like the Hammer of Light, just Terran this time.
do they even consider the GTVA a threat?

If you send your enemy 80 of your best ships, I think your enemy is a very dangerous threat (or, like me, a disturbance)
Why blow up Capella?

A terrorist attack, Shivan style, maybe.
Why send the Lucifer and not 80 Saths?

A different brood?
Why not send beam capable ships against the PVN and GTA?

Got me; don't know how to answer but...
Maybe Shivans HAD NOT beam weapons (not counting those onboard the Lucifer)before the SD was destroyed and developed them for a wider use after it was.
Why not send more ships after the Lucifer was destroyed?

Got me again, but...
Shivan held systems=very far from the Lucifer: took them 32 years to bring reinforcements.
Why not send a Gigas instead of the first Sath against the Colossus?


Because Gigas are the last resort (I think).
Why not send ships from Fomalhaut during FS2?

Maybe because Formalhaut was too unstable for Shivan ship or uncharted, or recently formed.
"Expecting a good plot from a certain genre of games, is expecting intelligence from the caracters it presents"- Myself
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Offline Woomeister

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Fomalhaut is a stable node and was around before FS1 time (at least as far as this campaign is concerned)

Shivans probably did have proper beam weapons during FS1 period. They are more advanced than the GTVA and have subspace weapons (at least in INF)

SSJ Gigas is not a last resort weapon, and isn't the only SSJ class the Shivans have, though it's the only one encountered.

 
if i remember correctly were there two gigas....one from inf that was found in rose 128, and one from solor wars that showed up in sol??? or there both teh same??

 

Offline Woomeister

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Solar Wars isn't Inferno 'cannon' there's only 1 Gigas seen in the main campaign.

 

Offline Murderous Species

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Needless to say, there are plot holes between FS1, FS2 and INF, and the "prize for the biggest" disputed between: "Shivans not using Formalhaut", "Ancients attacking", "EA vs. GTVA", and, the one I like the most: "SSD Lucifer, SJ Sathanas, SSJ Gigas: what should I send?"
"Expecting a good plot from a certain genre of games, is expecting intelligence from the caracters it presents"- Myself
"Pain is an illusion of the body; fear, an illusion of the mind"- Warhammer 40.000: Dawn of War
"What is it, Alpha 1... CHICKEN?"
"Prepare ship for LUDICROUS SPEED"
"One fairy contains A LOT of vitamins and minerals; to the point we eat them on-sight; they also offer A LOT of resistance when you don't cook them!"
ALICE!!!!!

 

Offline jr2

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Consider some far-out possiblities
Maybe the Shivans are already engaged with one or maybe more other enemy species; the Saths were being used for this battle, and they collapsed Cappella as a way to get to their enemy by surprise attack when they didn't use a normal jump node?  Maybe the Shivans sent the Lucifer to test a new experimental technology (sheath shielding) on us, before they implement its use against their main enemy.  We defeat it, so maybe they're trying to find a way to get shields to work in subspace before they implement the technology with other ships.  Also a possiblilty is that the Shivans don't want us to contact their enemies?  Also, are all Shivans of the same mindset?  Maybe (although you never see it) there's another Shivan side and they are having a civil war?  (probably not).

PS  When the Shivans killed Bosch's men, after he after he established contact, that kind of made me think that Shivans (at least the ones we're dealing with) are evil.  No matter what someone (or someone's race / species) has done, it doesn't release you to have no morals in your dealings with him.  (ie, we would be just as bad as Hitler was if we began a genocidal campaign to kill all Germans / Japanese at the end of WWII...we certainly had the capability.  Even if the Shivans decided to attack us because we and the Vasudans were squabbling, what they did at Vasuda Prime was uncalled for.  And think about it...they've got such advanced technology, you'd think they'd be able to develop a communications translator and tell us to knock it off, or tell us what was bugging them, or something!)  This also brings to mind the possibility that the Shivans are an intelligent weapon created to destroy some other species foes, and either
a) The Shivans got out of hand and overpowered their creators, or
b) Their creators are sickos

Anyways... any (more) comments?  These posts were very interesting.

 

Offline Murderous Species

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I remember someone saying that Shivans are the galaxy's "inmunological system".
Our (human) in. system is there to protect us, then the Shivans are protecting something; what?

Or maybe their are preventing GTVA to make contact with another, unseen race (not the Ancients) and this race is more powerful than Shivans are.
Possible, since GTVA controls a tiny portion of the galaxy and therefore knows little or nothing about other parts of the galaxy.
Everything is possible, at least until FS3 is released (and if it ever gets released)
"Expecting a good plot from a certain genre of games, is expecting intelligence from the caracters it presents"- Myself
"Pain is an illusion of the body; fear, an illusion of the mind"- Warhammer 40.000: Dawn of War
"What is it, Alpha 1... CHICKEN?"
"Prepare ship for LUDICROUS SPEED"
"One fairy contains A LOT of vitamins and minerals; to the point we eat them on-sight; they also offer A LOT of resistance when you don't cook them!"
ALICE!!!!!

 

Offline Murderous Species

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And the Capella supernova opened a link to their universe... it is starting to make sense
"Expecting a good plot from a certain genre of games, is expecting intelligence from the caracters it presents"- Myself
"Pain is an illusion of the body; fear, an illusion of the mind"- Warhammer 40.000: Dawn of War
"What is it, Alpha 1... CHICKEN?"
"Prepare ship for LUDICROUS SPEED"
"One fairy contains A LOT of vitamins and minerals; to the point we eat them on-sight; they also offer A LOT of resistance when you don't cook them!"
ALICE!!!!!