[Zarax]

The EU is the best thing that could have happened.
We are finally settling down the old nationalist rivalities and start working on a vision about sharing our common values and gather strenght by them.
Also, the Euro forced previously lousy managed economies (Italy, Greece, Portugal, Spain) to run within stricter parameters, making them much more stable than before.
Maybe we will loose some national(istic) values but it still think everyone has much to gain from it.
You may also notice that EU acts as development catalyst for the poorer areas thanks to well placed incentives.

[Roanoke]

Originally posted by Gank


Umm, our economys one of the best in europe...

Point is, the German economy need (or t least, needed) low interest rates to stimulate their economy whereas Ireland (I believe) need higher rates to curb inflation.

My info is probably out of date but the point is still valid.

[Gank]

Gotcha. Inflation is a bit of a gyp here alright.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/01/21/business/ecb.html

[Freyr]

Originally posted by Cyker
Well we've always been a proud nation I guess, and it's nice having the most highest value currency in the world

We value our (illusion?) of relative independence, and many people here would oppose any compromises with regard to that independence.

TBH I still don't understand the reason behind the EEC's evolution into the EU. What is the goal?? Why all the merging and integration?
So now we have a fledgling single currency. What's next, a standard language? Will they force everyone to learn English or Esperanto or something?
We're all made to drive on the right/left?
Same taxes, school system, law blah blah blah.

Yay. We can be the United States of Europe. Ooh ooh, and then we can make the Earth Community Union! And everyone on earth has to speak English! Currency will be the Eurdollyen! We will turn entire countries into giant farms and factories!

I suppose from a certain point of view, it's inevitable - After all, every single future fiction I've seen has had a unified currency - Be it Zenny, C-Bills or the ubiquitous Credit - And everyone speaks English. Heck, even alien races we've never met before speak English!

Man, future looks bleak from this angle. I preferred the one with beam cannons...

The name, The United States of Europe was actually suggested for the EU IIRC

I do not want to be ruled by some faceless guy in europe that I do not democraticially elect, and I fail to see how the EU can operate as a single entity, we speak different languages have different cultures and mostly can't agree with each other about anything apart from disagreeing!

[Grey Wolf]

And that makes you different from the Unites States of America in what way?

[Flipside]

You can elect members of Euro-Parliament for your own country, but have no say in who other countries elect. Similar, in a way to the US State-based election, or the UK borough-based elections. Each country puts forward it's own representative. However, there, afaik, is where the publics hand in the EU stops. From then on, they are self-structured, which is not a good idea. You get situations similar to the UN, where they elect Iraq to be in charge of Human Rights. That's not something the people would have done, it takes being as deranged as a politician to reach that level of hyprocrisy

[Freyr]

well, not that much, but at least the USA has a process to rig...

AFAIK  each country gets a shot at being president of the EU for like 6 months.

To be honest, I don't really care how it works. I just want to be ruled by my elected goverment, where I have the chance every few years to elect someone else. If there is not much of a choice between the major parties and I don't feel they can represent my properly I do have the chance to elect a party like the pink panthers or the raving lunatics or the UK Independence Party, who cares, so long as I do get a choice.

[mitac]

Originally posted by Freyr


The name, The United States of Europe was actually suggested for the EU IIRC

That may have been suggested here and there, but it's never really been up for a decision. The term of the "USE" has basically been used as a means of scaring folks. "Look, it's the big, bad EU, they're forcing us to unite."

I do not want to be ruled by some faceless guy in europe that I do not democraticially elect, ...

Now, who's that guy that rules Europe? I don't know it, so please enlighten me. I only know of several EU institutions; the council, which consists of the heads of the national governments. The parliament, which is elected through direct elections. The commission, which is suggested by the council and elected by the parliament.

and I fail to see how the EU can operate as a single entity, we speak different languages have different cultures and mostly can't agree with each other about anything apart from disagreeing!

There is a very important aspect you missed. The people across Europe may not speak the same languages, have the same history or share the same culture, but they sure share certain values. Some may deny that, but that's what distinguishes "Europe". The EU has been called a "Union of values" for a reason.

(By the way, the aspect of the common values becomes very interesting when looking at that Turkey debate. But that's another topic.)

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Roanoke


Point is, the German economy need (or t least, needed) low interest rates to stimulate their economy whereas Ireland (I believe) need higher rates to curb inflation.

My info is probably out of date but the point is still valid.

To be fair, Germany itself is somewhat of a unique case due to the reunification of the East and West.

Althoughb IIRC the 1999-2003 German 'real' interest rate was 0.7% compared to about 2.3% for the Uk.  I believe the German and Irish economic growth over that period was higher than that of the Uks, too.    I think that the euro states saw their inter-european trade increase whilst the UKs trade (with Euro-using countries) declined.

EDIT;
Of course, my main reason for liking the euro is not having to change money to go abroad.  That and I'm sick of London cashiers taking an eternity to check and recheck my money everytime I pay with a scottish banknote*

*which technically isn't even legal tender in England

[Flipside]

Yeah, that really annoys me as well Aldo, whenever I go up to visit Glasgow, I usually end up with a few Scottish notes in my pocket. Strictly speaking, they ARE legal tender in the UK, it's just that most Shop-owners are stupid, and they have the last say as to whether they make a sale or not.

[vyper]

Did it ever occur to anyone that diversity and individual nations are actually a good thing because competition & ambition drives change and progess?

[Liberator]

Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
And that makes you different from the Unites States of America in what way?

Only the people that aren't supposed to be here don't speak a dialect of English.

[Clave]

I wonder if the states of the USA will ever join together under one set of common laws and taxes?

[Liberator]

umm...they are...it called the Federal Government

[Rictor]

Originally posted by vyper
Did it ever occur to anyone that diversity and individual nations are actually a good thing because competition & ambition drives change and progess?

yes, yes it has. I'm actually in favour of having a national identify or whatever. Though the thing with Canada is that diversity IS the national identity. Its not like most of the rest of the world, where there is a traditional culture.

And while I don't think that its avoidable up to a point, my guess is that national identity will remain more or less intact, and as economic conditions improve in certain parts of the world, there will be a lesser urge to move to wherever,

[Grey Wolf]

We may be officially united under the Federal government, but in reality, the laws are quite a bit different from state to state. For example, New York has incredibly high taxes, much of which go to social programs. At the same time, Texas has virtually no taxes, and no social programs. Not very similar at all.

[Ford Prefect]

National identity is crap, but humanity won't abandon it; it goes against the grain.

[Flipside]

Well, it's always been a question of 'Our Tribe' and 'Their Tribe'. Once a Tribe gets big enough, it is subdivided into sub-Tribes (States/Boroughs/Regions etc). You'll even find little rivalries and differences developing between the sub-Tribes.

We are at a precarious position really, a Global Culture with a Tribal Mentality. I think the next few generations are going to have to take up the task of learning to think of everyone as 'Our Tribe'. That won't be easy, but it really is, in my opinon, the making or breaking of mankind.

[Mongoose]

Well, maybe I'm a backwards, arrogant American who doesn't understand the cultural workings of Europe, but I have a question to those of you from countries that have joined the EU:  doesn't it bother you to give up part of your own national sovereignty to a larger unit?  Doesn't it harm some sense of nationalism to know that, to a certain extent, your country is being controlled by people elected from other countries?  (I'm not referring to any actual political control, just to the extent of the authority that the EU does have, of which I'm not really well-informed.)  Some of your nations have been around in some form for hundreds, even thousands of years.  Yet you would give up this tradition so easily and relinquish authority to a different body?  I guess I'm just not thinking in the same way.

I guess the thing that really gets me is the Euro.  To me, as an American, the American dollar is a symbol of our nation.  It has our national symbols, monuments, and great presidents/leaders on it.  More than that, however, in a certain stance, it stands for our country.  Take a look at Greece, for instance.  The drachma was in use for thousands of years, and yet they gave it up for the Euro.  How was this done so lightly?  At least to me, the drachma is a symbol of Greek culture, as is the yen for Japan and the pound for England.  Maybe that's just a different, American perspective; maybe it's wrong; I don't know.  Hearing that Kofi Annan supports a form of global currency, however, makes me even more distrustful of him.

What I do know, however, is that, while I'm alive, I don't ever want to see any global/hemispherical currency replace my dollars.  More importantly and vitally, I don't want to see any organization of any kind supercede its authority over that of the United States Constitution.  "Over my dead body" has come to my mind; it may seem strange, but that's honestly the way I feel.  I don't want any form of global government, and I don't want anything interfering with United States sovereignty, either in the next ten years or in the next one hundred.

I'm sorry to intrude on this thread, but I'd like to hear a different view of the matter from some of the European members, in order to get an idea in what way my opinions differ from those in other parts of the world.

[Ford Prefect]

Just for the sake of argument, though: The United States Constitution is an incredible document, but it's not incredible because it's "The Constitution", it's incredible because of what it upholds. What if a hypothetical world government were built on a constitution that was identical to that of the United States? What would be wrong with that?