[Gank]

Bah, britains always been half in half out of the EU/EC/ECC, they dont want anyone else dictating policy to them but they also dont want to be left out when it comes to deciding what policys are going to affect europe. Its a sort of We dont want to be part but we're ****ed if we're going to let the frogs and krauts tell everyone else what to do attitude.

[vyper]

Pretty much.

[Liberator]

frogs?

[Gank]

Frenchmen, they got the name from their tendancy to eat frogs legs. Kraut is german for cabbage iirc. Derogatory terms used in england for  their european compatriots.

[mitac]

Originally posted by vyper
CAP = Common Agricultural Policy

Ah, okay. I was not aware of that english abreviation.

[Mongoose]

Some interesting responses.  What I really wanted to do was to get some actual first-hand accounts of people's feelings about the whole issue, and it's worked out very well. Being "across the pond," as it were, I really don't get a whole lot of info about the EU's actual structure/policies/extent of powers, so it's nice to learn something.

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80


why should it?

Every country in the EU joined voluntarily.

Yes, I know you joined voluntarily, but what I don't understand is why you joined at all.  Even voluntarily, why does giving up part of your nation's self-determination not bother you in the least?  I'm just curious.  As I said, this is my opinion based on absolutely no experience, but based on what Freyr said at least, it seems as if at least some people in Europe share my opinion.

[Flipside]

Actually, the UK was tricked into it more or less

[vyper]

Originally posted by Gank
Frenchmen, they got the name from their tendancy to eat frogs legs. Kraut is german for cabbage iirc. Derogatory terms used in england Britain for  their european compatriots.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Mongoose

Yes, I know you joined voluntarily, but what I don't understand is why you joined at all.  Even voluntarily, why does giving up part of your nation's self-determination not bother you in the least?  I'm just curious.  As I said, this is my opinion based on absolutely no experience, but based on what Freyr said at least, it seems as if at least some people in Europe share my opinion.

The real purpose of the EU is and should be to provide a 'block' to the US in particular; i.e. to allow the small countries to work together.  I'm not for political integration (i.e. the super-state), but i don't have anything against economic co-operation.  In terms of the euro/pound, of course, it's worth noting that a great deal of control over the pound comes from an unelected body anyways (Bank of England).

So there's a degree of trade-off that comes with the co-operation required to wield that economic power; the EU is itself run by publicly-elected MEPs, of course (even if that running needs revisal).

And, of course, there's always the option to withdraw fully....

[Gank]

I think a lot of the opposition to the pound joining the Euro stems from Black Wednesday.

[Grey Wolf]

This thread is only the second time I've heard the term "Frog" used for Frenchmen, the first being while reading Lieutenant Horatio Hornblower.

EDIT: Seems I lied. Turns out it was also in the HLP front page, way back in August 2001.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
This thread is only the second time I've heard the term "Frog" used for Frenchmen, the first being while reading Lieutenant Horatio Hornblower.

I think it's more an English (i.e. as in nationality) thing; I'm not sure about the Welsh, but Scotland has a good historical relationship with the French (Auld Alliance), whereas the English went to war frequently with them.

[Freyr]

   quote:Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
    This thread is only the second time I've heard the term "Frog" used for Frenchmen, the first being while reading Lieutenant Horatio Hornblower.



I think it's more an English (i.e. as in nationality) thing; I'm not sure about the Welsh, but Scotland has a good historical relationship with the French (Auld Alliance), whereas the English went to war frequently with them.

And the last time we went to war with them was probably the last time it was used, because I haven't heard it used outside a historical setting.

Likewise with "Kraut" or "Jerry", in the same way as the germans don't refer to us as "Tommy"

[aldo_14]

Doesn;t the english tabloid media use 'frogs' and 'kruats' quite a lot?

[01010]

Originally posted by aldo_14
Doesn;t the english tabloid media use 'frogs' and 'kruats' quite a lot?

Depends if they are angry at them or if we've cooperated with them on something.

[pyro-manic]

Originally posted by aldo_14


I think it's more an English (i.e. as in nationality) thing; I'm not sure about the Welsh, but Scotland has a good historical relationship with the French (Auld Alliance), whereas the English went to war frequently with them.

We tend to just use the term "f**king French bastards" instead...

Nah, it's an English thing. I'm not aware of any big things between Wales and France - though we weren't really around as states together (Wales hasn't been a sovereign state for the best part of a thousand years) We were never really at war with anyone except the English, to be honest.

[01010]

Everyone has been at war with the English at some point I'm sure, for some reason, that fills me with pride.

[vyper]

Originally posted by aldo_14


I think it's more an English (i.e. as in nationality) thing; I'm not sure about the Welsh, but Scotland has a good historical relationship with the French (Auld Alliance), whereas the English went to war frequently with them.

Are you forgetting how they supported us in the independence wars but ****ed off a while later?

[Mr Carrot]

The Euro referundum in the late 60s (?) was effectively won by the Government convincing the populus that it was ONLY about trade. The great British acloholism cant argue with slogons like "All the cheap wine you want from Calais!". So there is a certain level of truth to the 'tricked' into it argument. Plus the French really drove the European project at a pace much faster then it should have been in its formative years thanks to the Gaulists drive to maintain France as a world power (via the EU).

So what weve got is a large beurocratic organisation which is distinctly (well traditionally pre WW2) unBritish built on a legal system and mind set at odds to Common Law. The EU legal system which has premacy over UK law is effectively incompatible with the UK system. The reason you dont see "loony EU law!!" headlines in European papers is because they dont just ignore them, the laws compliment their current system of "this is what you can do" as opposed to the UK system of this is what you cant.

The British have the best record of implementation of EU laws since 2002 even though they have less policy creation power than the French or Germans. Which is frankly insane, the civil service just gold plates the ****ing things as soon as they are passed with little or no regard to how they will effect the country proper.

In my opinion there is a role for a non federal supra national organisation but it needs to be reset to remove the nasty bits, its just such a beaurocratic malaise at the moment.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by vyper


Are you forgetting how they supported us in the independence wars but ****ed off a while later?

I was thinking of the (reason leading to the) Battle of Flodden, actually.

After all, until just over a century ago Scots held the same rights as French nationals under French law.

Plus the French are really good at beating the english in the 5 (6) nations and at footie (like the Germans), and they didn't bomb Clydebank (unlike the Germans).