[Cobra]

Here's mission 9 of campaign 2. i looked through it, but i don't see any bugs. report as necessary. Campaign 2 Mission 9

[EDIT] This link has been updated. This is the latest version of the mission.

[TopAce]

I will test this as soon as I finish testing for freespacegundam.

[TopAce]

TEST RESULTS:
Number of test runs: 1

• The mission was untitled
• There is no period[.] at the end of briefing stage 1 and a comma is missing at 'All right, pilots'
  
• I had all the ships and weapons available, even the Terran Mara or the dogfight weapons. Furthermore, Alpha were armed with the default weapons while Kaysers were available.
• There was no primary objective(SHIFT-G)
• The player can give orders to all ships, untick the Player Orders for all ships except for Alpha wingmen
• There was no 'Return to base' or 'Follow Juluis to the node' directive.
• There was no debriefing
• I received some weird messages saying to go back to defend the civilians after the Julius jumped out.
• I don't know if I was simply unlucky, but all three wingmen of mine died in 2 seconds after the first wave of Shivans arrived
• The pilots still sent messages after they had died. Do not use High priority for messages that wingmen send or they will be sent as 'Command'

[Cobra]

OK. Rundown.

1-5: OH CRAP. I forgot. OK, I'm gonna fix that.
6: uhm,

Spoiler:

when the GTCv Julius jumps out, look at the message

7: er,

Spoiler:

this mission goes into a red alert.

8: That I don't know about, i'll have to take a look.
9: Yes, you were unlucky.
10: I'm still trying to work on that problem. What should I set it on?

[TopAce]

Originally posted by Cobra
OK. Rundown.

1-5: OH CRAP. I forgot. OK, I'm gonna fix that.
6: uhm,

Spoiler:

when the GTCv Julius jumps out, look at the message

I am talking about Directives, not messages
7: er,

Spoiler:

this mission goes into a red alert.

It did not start the red-alert sequence to me. I will have to look it into FRED.
8: That I don't know about, i'll have to take a look.
9: Yes, you were unlucky.
10: I'm still trying to work on that problem. What should I set it on?
Mediun or Low [/B]

[Cobra]

yes. the mission ends in a red alert.

D'OH! I'm fixing the escort list now.

I don't get the "level off gridlines" thing.

Non-use of the Y-axis is a habit of mine.

[EDIT] Er, I meant the mission ends in a red alert, TopAce. I was thinking of the next mission.

[Cobra]

K. I've update the mission. Update.

Now I just need to learn how to end a mission on a Red Alert... and how to use the Y-axis

[Cobra]

I forgot to amend a few problems... M9 v1.3(?)

[karajorma]

Now you post this. After I've just gone and played it! Fine I'll take a look at it in FRED. I spotted errors that the others missed/weren't there when they tried it

Back in a few mins

[Cobra]

re download the last link. it's been updated

[karajorma]

Okay, first things first. I enjoyed playing the mission. It had lots of bugs but we'll teach you how to solve and avoid those. The art of how to make a fun mission is harder to teach and since you've scored highly there that's a lot less work for me

On to the bugs

• Umm. The mission takes place in Capella at the node TO Epsilon Pegasi not the other way around.
• It is possible to get messages from the Calypso and other terran craft that are dead. You should either check that the Calypso is alive (by replacing the true in event Complaint 1 with

Code: [Select]

not
-destroyed or departed delay
--0
--Calypso

An alternative is to set the message priority to low instead of high. IIRC messages with low priority aren't read out by command if the ship sending them is killed.)

• I was all set to complain about you making the Destroy Malice goal visible from the briefing when I noticed that you've made it a bonus goal. This is good. However leaving it as a secondary goal which was invalid at the start of the mission would probably have been better. If you don't know how to do that just post and I'll explain it.
• No AWOL debriefing! I really thought when I made up that list of common FRED mistakes I wouldn't have to say this one as often :rolleyes: :D At the moment there's nothing to stop the player jumping out at the start of the mission.
• The player can jump out anywhere on the map. Since he's supposed to jump out at the node you need to fix this so that the player can only jump out at the node. You use a pair of repeating never warp and allow warp events to do this. If you aren't sure check my FRED FAQ as there is a more detailed explaination there. (as a side effect you can rig this so that the player can't jump out before the mission is complete, negating the need for an AWOL debrief).
  
  
• Don't use the SJ Sathanas in the background. They never appeared in those kinds of numbers anywhere near the nodes. You should also change the sun you've used to the one with the saths around it.

(For future reference you should never use the sathanas model like that anyway. Due to the need to have lots of Sathani on several missions [V] created the SJD sathanas model which looks like a sath when targetted but doesn't use as much of the computers resources).

• Is it possible to lose this mission in any way? I haven't checked but apart from dying is there any way to lose? If there is you really need a debriefing explaining why the player lost.

Anyway. That's all for now. Once you've changed the mission I'll give it another try.

[Cobra]

Originally posted by karajorma
Okay, first things first. I enjoyed playing the mission. It had lots of bugs but we'll teach you how to solve and avoid those. The art of how to make a fun mission is harder to teach and since you've scored highly there that's a lot less work for me

i scored highly? sweet.

On to the bugs

Originally posted by karajorma
Umm. The mission takes place in Capella at the node TO Epsilon Pegasi not the other way around.

[/B]Fixed

Originally posted by karajorma
It is possible to get messages from the Calypso and other terran craft that are dead. You should either check that the Calypso is alive (by replacing the true in event Complaint 1 with

Code: [Select]

not
-destroyed or departed delay
--0
--Calypso

An alternative is to set the message priority to low instead of high. IIRC messages with low priority aren't read out by command if the ship sending them is killed.) [/B]

[/B]Fixed

Originally posted by karajorma
I was all set to complain about you making the Destroy Malice goal visible from the briefing when I noticed that you've made it a bonus goal. This is good. However leaving it as a secondary goal which was invalid at the start of the mission would probably have been better. If you don't know how to do that just post and I'll explain it.

[/B]No I don't

Originally posted by karajorma
No AWOL debriefing! I really thought when I made up that list of common FRED mistakes I wouldn't have to say this one as often At the moment there's nothing to stop the player jumping out at the start of the mission.

The player can jump out anywhere on the map. Since he's supposed to jump out at the node you need to fix this so that the player can only jump out at the node. You use a pair of repeating never warp and allow warp events to do this. If you aren't sure check my FRED FAQ as there is a more detailed explaination there. (as a side effect you can rig this so that the player can't jump out before the mission is complete, negating the need for an AWOL debrief).

[/B]Working on that

Originally posted by karajorma
Don't use the SJ Sathanas in the background. They never appeared in those kinds of numbers anywhere near the nodes. You should also change the sun you've used to the one with the saths around it.
(For future reference you should never use the sathanas model like that anyway. Due to the need to have lots of Sathani on several missions [V] created the SJD sathanas model which looks like a sath when targetted but doesn't use as much of the computers resources).

[/B]Well, there's a problem with using a sathsun on my FRED. I can never see the sathanai.

Originally posted by karajorma
Is it possible to lose this mission in any way? I haven't checked but apart from dying is there any way to lose? If there is you really need a debriefing explaining why the player lost.

[/B]I'm not really sure how to do that. The mission is supposed to go into red alert. I don't know how to make it "I failed, i get debriefed.

[Cobra]

er, now i can't find the sathsun. help?

[Roanoke]

That's some kick-ass feedback guys (TopAce, K, Mrs ShadowWolf)

[karajorma]

In that case. Here's some more.  Actually an explaination of how invalid objectives work is the sort of thing that I should add to the FAQ so I'll answer it in that style so I can later just cut and paste it in

What is an invalid objective and how does that differ from a bonus objective?

When making objectives in the objective editor you may have noticed the little Objective Invaild tickbox and wondered what it does.  To explain let's take an example mission. Suppose you're FREDding a mission where you're going to destroy a Moloch corvette. When the mission starts however you find the Moloch taking on supplies from a Demon class destroyer. Command order you to ignore the moloch for now and concentrate on the demon. Now look at your objectives. Having the destruction of the moloch as a primary goal while the destruction of the demon is a bonus seems ludicrous. In addition to this the Destroy Demon objective will only appear on the objectives list after you have destroyed it.
 This is where invalid objectives come into their own. The game completely ignores the objective until an event using the validate-goal SEXP is triggered. After this the game treats the goal normally. So basically you've suddenly made a Destroy Demon primary goal appear as if by magic.
Goal validation doesn't end there though. Just as you can validate goals you can also invalidate them. For instance at the moment destroying the demon and the Moloch are both primary goals. If you fail to kill the Moloch you won't get the full victory music even though you did better than the mission briefing expected of you. What you can do in this case is use the invalidate-goal SEXP to make the Destroy Moloch goal invalid. The game will now ignore it.
 If you're really sneaky you can even have an invalid Destroy Moloch secondary goal as well as a primary one. Invalidating the primary while making the secondary valid will make it look like the Moloch's destruction has changed from being a primary goal to being a secondary one.

It's worth noting that bonus goals can also be invalid too. You could have a Destroy Cain bonus which only becomes valid once the Moloch and Demon are gone


As for the debriefing. Just make a debriefing stage that triggers if the Julius is killed. A red alert mission doesn't mean no briefing. It means no briefing on a successful ending. If you fail the mission you should still get a normal debriefing.

Finally what's this about Sunsath not working on your copy of FRED? Remember you choose it from the bitmap list not the sun list (strangely enough).

[Cobra]

actually, there is no SunSath option...

teh invalid thing... niiiice.

[TopAce]

Be sure you do not use a custom stars.tbl.

[karajorma]

It's called SunSathanas01 - 03 and it's at the bottom of the bitmaps list in the background editor.

[Cobra]

that's where i looked. nothing.

where's the custom stars.tbl?

[TopAce]

Originally posted by Cobra

where's the custom stars.tbl?

Originally posted by TopAce
Be sure you do not use a custom stars.tbl.