[Liberator]

*notices how none of the MAX jockeys have posted useful or witty comments about the complete lack of n00b-friendly tutorials*

[Omniscaper]

You learn through tinkering and playing with the program's features. I look up tutorials when I have specific questions and needs. It all depends on the individual. Some people need EVERYTHING spelled out for them before they act. Some people like to get their hands dirty right away and learn through trial and error. But even those people take the time and invest in application lesson books. The question is, do you really want to learn the freakin program?

When I say 3dsmax is the easiest to learn, I say that out of experience. All together I've learned how to use Topaz (DOS based uber old skool), Raydream, Pixel 3d, 3dsmax1-6, Lightwave 5-7, and recently Truespace 6.5. Of all these programs 3dsmax has the friendliest GUI and isthe most intuitive to use.

[Flipside]

Heh, if I had a Dollar for every model I've fubared in the making.....

[Black Wolf]

Originally posted by Liberator
Maybe it's because the only tutorials I can find are designed for someone that has a modicum of knowledge in the arena already.  I just load the builtin tutorials, mess around for 45 mins and don't remember a thing.

I need something that is for a complete, n00b level, doesn't know a polygon from a hole in his head novice.  I wish I could afford some damn books, I don't do well with online learning.

Get the G-Max tutorials. Do them in order. By the time you finish the Aeroplane one, you'll be all but sorted.

[KARMA]

the funny thing is that I've learned truespace w/o tutorials and w/o having used any 3d prog before, just clicking around, and I found its interface pretty easy, intuitive and elegant. The position of some of the advanced tools may be confusing, but most of them and all the modelling tools are in the most rational position, or pop up only when you really need them. And you can COMPLETELY edit the interface....eh.
The key features of truespace are the easyness of changing the viewpoint and the on screen editors. In the few other proggys that I tryed I've never found the same simple and fast solution to change the view, which lets you, in combination with the on screen editors, to work almost only in the perspective view at full screen.
The flaws of truespace are others IMHO, expecially the absence of some very important tools which exists in almost any other programs, not to mention the way it generate new faces when you add manually new edges... I know how it works and how to do it, and I still have problems sometimes...
Compared to truespace, I found (in the 10 minutes I used it w/o reading tuts) max4 much harder. Well, not exactly harder, but I couldn't find my own way with the workflow.
I guess that I should try it again

[karajorma]

Agree with you 100% Karma. I've tried both Truespace and 3DS Max and despite reading and doing a whole bunch of tutorials for max I found the TS learning curve much easier.

I may have had trouble learning MAX but I'm not stupid enough to try to blame the program for the fact that I can't wrap my head around the way it works.

I just wish the Max users would understand that some people find a different style easier because quite frankly I'm getting sick of hearing people say that TS is hard to learn to use or that it's crap. If you can't use Truespace then the defficiency is with you as there are lots of people who have picked up Truespace and learnt to use it without a huge amount of trouble.

If you want to suggest that people try MAX before Truespace then fine but the attitude I seem to hear is don't try Truespace under any circumstances. Which when I look at all the models made by people who say they can't model with MAX but manage to make great models with TS sounds like just about the most stupid, arrogant thing I've heard in f**king ages.

If people try MAX and find it too hard it's more sensible that they know that some people find MAX hard but Truespace easy so that they try both. Constantly harping on about how hard TS is to understand means that if someone can't understand MAX they'll decide that there's no hope for them and just give up.

[Deepblue]

BTW Omniscaper, Democles X is planning on releasing his BSG stuff so you might be able to use that.

[pyro-manic]

Lib: get GMax from www.turbosquid.com/gmax and download the tutorials at the same time. Look at the bottom left. Do those, and just have a play around.

Omniscaper: Nice model. I'm not really a fan of BSG design (what little I've seen of it) but that's looking promising. Once the details are on there it'll look great

[Liberator]

Been there, done that, not simple enough.  

Pretend I'm one of those guys that has to have everything laid out and don't know any jargon, better yet, don't pretend.  

I get confused switching back and forth betweent the tut and the program.  I tried doing the mace tut one time(the first one I think) and after I finished it, I tried to duplicate it on my own.  It was a joke.  I fround myself wanting to rotate the model to distribute things easily, like in Blender(you use the Num Pad to rotate the "camera" anywhere in a sphere around you're point of focus) and I couldn't.  That is stupid, I don't care how many features it has, if I can't manuver the camera easy and often so I can see what the hell I'm doing whats the point?  That's my largest complaint, the complete in accessability of the damn view system, indeed many of what I consider to be simple and requisite controls, without being a damn, m*****-****ing super god-like advanced master of all things MAX.

[Black Wolf]

You have a scroll button on your mouse right? Hold down alt, click and drag with the scroll button. If you don;t have a scroll button, all the camera movement controls should be in the bottom right.

[pyro-manic]

Lib: Seriously? Is that in Gmax or full 3DS Max? Because the Gmax interface isn't complicated at all (at least for the basics). To rotate, you just click the rotate button in the corner and drag in the viewport:



D'you want to learn it? Cos I could help you if you want (If I can learn, I'm positive you can) - I'm no master, but I managed to pick up the basics pretty quickly, so I can get you started if you need someone to take you through it.

EDIT: Apologies for the poor quality image. Hostedimage seems to crapify them quite nicely....

[Liberator]

Like I'm going to know what those are picking up the program for the first time.  I picked blender up and in 5 mins I knew the exact button to push on my keyboard perform all the basic actions for building a mesh:

Rotate model == R
rotate view == numpad 4,5,6,8,2
zoom view == numpad +,-
Select individual points == click the poly with right mb
group selection of polies == B once for a banding box, B a second time for a brush(new versions default to selecting the front polies only)
Extrude selected polies/points == E, use the mouse to move, constrain with Ctrl or shift+ctrl
Scale selected polies == S and move the mouse, constrain with ctrl or shift+ctrl
Duplicate == D
Mirror == M

These controls are simple and beyond obvious.  

The reason I wanted to learn MAX is because it's a more far reaching program.  You learn it and you're set, no matter the game or project.

But it's obviously too complex for one such as I who has limited mental capacities to apply to it.  Besides, online instruction and self-guided learning doesn't and hasn't worked with me.  I lack the motivational willpower.  Would it surprise you to learn that I almost never study?  I never had to as a child.  And now, as an adult(biologically and chronologically), I don't have the will to sit and read anything that's not a work of science fiction for long periods under my own direction.  I think I managed a couple of hours about a year ago.

[StratComm]

The thing is, those aren't even more obvious than the Max interface.  Move, rotate, and scale selected objects are buttons on the top panel, rotate/zoom/PAN (which you haven't mentioned, but which is extremely vital) are controlled from the view controls box in the lower-right corner, selecting points/edges/polygons is done through a the modify object panel, and allows you to select whether you want to work with faces, edges, or points (you can also do volumes, but that's somewhat less useful), you just have to be in the modify tab instead of create or animate or whatever.  Group selection is accomplished by either holding down control and clicking additional objects, or by automatic band-box selection.  There's a tick box in face/edge/point select mode that allows you to include or exclude backfaces.   Extrusion and beveling, as well as a multitude of other tasks, are subfunctions of polygon/edge/point manipulations and so are contained within the menu on the right.  There is a specific mirror button on the top bar, and duplication is performed by holding down shift when trying to manipulate (move, scale, rotate) a selection or object.  That you were able to gather all you needed in five minutes in blender is atypical; generally it takes just as long to learn it as it would Max.

[Roanoke]

After becoming comfortable with Max, I cannnot stand TS.  
I would recoomend anyone struggling to switch to keep at it. You won't regret it. Oh, and check out 3d-palace.com for some excellent video tuts (most with commentry).

[aldo_14]

I learnt Max straight after learning Blender.  I found the transition pretty easy; all you really need to do is learn how to make models with the same technique as before.

[Liberator]

Originally posted by StratComm
That you were able to gather all you needed in five minutes in blender is atypical; generally it takes just as long to learn it as it would Max.

That doesn't stop me from feeling like a fool when I DL GMax(6 times in the last 3 years) and can't make heads nor tails of it using the damn tutorial that was written for someone with lots more experience modeling than I have.

[Deepblue]

BTW Gmax is exactly the same as Max 5 but without the rendering tools.

[Anaz]

I like max b/c it doesn't explode as/right before you save, or anywhere else (yet..)

stupid max question...is there any way to create a line between two points just by selecting those points, and then pressing something?

[Taristin]

selecting two points and clicking connect.

[Liberator]

It's probably in some esoteric menu somewhere...


In blender you select the two points and press F

I want to learn MAX, I really do.  But when you blokes tell me it's so simple and easy and I sit down and get frustrated because it's a *****, I get pissed off.