Author Topic: HTL Iceni  (Read 158468 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Wanderer

  • Wiki Warrior
  • 211
  • Mostly harmless
All topside (dorsal?)  turrets should face forward and all bottom (ventral?) should be facing backwards before model is converted into a pof. Actual barrel directions and elevations can be later handled with animation code.
Do not meddle in the affairs of coders for they are soggy and hard to light

 

Offline knn

  • 28
All topside (dorsal?)  turrets should face forward and all bottom (ventral?) should be facing backwards before model is converted into a pof. Actual barrel directions and elevations can be later handled with animation code.

Yes but when the turrets are 10 polygon boxes, it doesn't matter which side is front and which is back. Now what happened is that what I though was the front in the original model was in fact the back.
Animation code? What has that got to do with the turrets?
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man and let history make its own judgments." -- Zefram Cochrane

 

Offline Wanderer

  • Wiki Warrior
  • 211
  • Mostly harmless
Animation code makes its possible to set turret facings and barrel elevations (among other things) for models in game. Like in these here. It's handled through ships.tbl. So that the modeller has 'only' to make sure turrets are aligned properly (dorsal - facing front, ventral - facing backwards) and then the rest is taken care of with tables.
Do not meddle in the affairs of coders for they are soggy and hard to light

 

Offline knn

  • 28
Animation code makes its possible to set turret facings and barrel elevations (among other things) for models in game. Like in these here. It's handled through ships.tbl.

Oh, that's great! Thanks a million.
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man and let history make its own judgments." -- Zefram Cochrane

 

Offline knn

  • 28
Will I be beamraped by a Sathanas for moving a turret a bit?



The right one is the original.
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man and let history make its own judgments." -- Zefram Cochrane

 

Offline WeatherOp

  • 29
  • I forged the ban hammer. What about that?
    • http://www.geocities.com/weather_op/pageone.html?1113100476773
Nah, nobody really cares as long as it keeps the original FOV or close to it anyways.
Decent Blacksmith, Master procrastinator.

PHD in the field of Almost Finishing Projects.

  

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
  • 211
  • Bad command or file name
Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
no, ETAK was a completely different device, it use d quantum pulses to communicate, not normal comm equipment,
if it was simply a new frequency and language, it'd be a somewhat less important seeming thing and it woudlnt have taken years of research and a coverup rebellion to do
Quantum pulses?  From what I remember from the Tech Room, Shivans communicate through the electromagnetic spectrum.  In fact, your ship picks up communications between the Iceni and the Shivans during the one nebula mission.  That kind of shoots the "massive new device" theory out of the water.  I always thought that the Shivans communicated in the normal spectrum, but that their communications were completely incomprehensible; that Bosch managed to get data from an Ancient archaeological site that enabled him to decrypt Shivan transmissions. Regardless, I don't think adding a big honkin' radar dish to the Iceni would do much for its looks.

Oh for goodness' sake... I know that debate about Shivan means of communication ended ages ago, but I simply can't help throwing a short comment on it here...

I don't mean to be mean, nowhere near it, but do you people have any idea what you are talking about? Basically, the point is that Shivans use quantum pulses AKA bursts of electromagnetic radiation as their natural means of communication, just like humans and Vasudans use voice, machanical wave-motion via air.

Let me explain further: Electromagnetic radiation consists of quantum flow (photons, more specifically); short pulses of electromagnetic radiation can be considered as quantum pulses. So you are both right; most likely Shivans use the normal spectrum of radio waves and not gamma or x-rays or visible light, as we indeed can hear their signals in some missions. So, there's nothing special in quantum pulses themselves - hell, when you turn on the radio, it catches quantum pulses emitted by the transmitter kilometres away. Or your cordless mouse transmits them to the receiver, which converts them to normal USB mouse signals. Or the cell phones... Only thing special in Shivan communication is that they can directly produce the pulses they want to generate and transfer information within them quite easily, whereas we humans (and Vasudans) have to build complex things that first convert the information into electrical form (be it analog or digital), then send it modulated into carrier signal (at least three means of modulation can be used; frequency modulation, amplitude modulation or polarization modulation - of these, only FM and AM are widely used on Earth) and finally a receiver converts the signal into comprehensive form - be it text, voice or picture. The Shivans need no devices, they can produce and receive radio signals with relative ease.

On this background it's quite simple to see what ETAK actually is: It's an emulator that produces a signal comprehensive to Shivans; an emulator, if you like. The problems encountered here are:

-what frequencies do Shivans use? This is relatively easy to find out, just listen to them with radio telescope and pick the right frequencies.

-what modulation type do they use? Equally easy to find out.

-what they say and what we say to them? This is the hardest problem to sove, and does not actually require hardware, but indeed more like software, actually a decyphering tool... And, as it seems, it didn't quite go as Bosch planned it. Or who knows? Perhaps he persuaded the Shivans to leave human-vasudan space. Anyway, as it seems, ETAK is more like a powerful computer or computer program that emulates a shivan receiver/transmitter and tries to convert normal(for us) information into Shivan form and vice versa. So, it certainly wouldn't need any external special antennae - it could very well use the ships own comm subsystem, which would very likely be more than capable at operating with Shivan frequencies.

That is all.  :)
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline knn

  • 28
Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
no, ETAK was a completely different device, it use d quantum pulses to communicate, not normal comm equipment,
if it was simply a new frequency and language, it'd be a somewhat less important seeming thing and it woudlnt have taken years of research and a coverup rebellion to do
Quantum pulses?  From what I remember from the Tech Room, Shivans communicate through the electromagnetic spectrum.  In fact, your ship picks up communications between the Iceni and the Shivans during the one nebula mission.  That kind of shoots the "massive new device" theory out of the water.  I always thought that the Shivans communicated in the normal spectrum, but that their communications were completely incomprehensible; that Bosch managed to get data from an Ancient archaeological site that enabled him to decrypt Shivan transmissions. Regardless, I don't think adding a big honkin' radar dish to the Iceni would do much for its looks.

Oh for goodness' sake... I know that debate about Shivan means of communication ended ages ago, but I simply can't help throwing a short comment on it here...

I don't mean to be mean, nowhere near it, but do you people have any idea what you are talking about? Basically, the point is that Shivans use quantum pulses AKA bursts of electromagnetic radiation as their natural means of communication, just like humans and Vasudans use voice, machanical wave-motion via air.

Let me explain further: Electromagnetic radiation consists of quantum flow (photons, more specifically); short pulses of electromagnetic radiation can be considered as quantum pulses. So you are both right; most likely Shivans use the normal spectrum of radio waves and not gamma or x-rays or visible light, as we indeed can hear their signals in some missions. So, there's nothing special in quantum pulses themselves - hell, when you turn on the radio, it catches quantum pulses emitted by the transmitter kilometres away. Or your cordless mouse transmits them to the receiver, which converts them to normal USB mouse signals. Or the cell phones... Only thing special in Shivan communication is that they can directly produce the pulses they want to generate and transfer information within them quite easily, whereas we humans (and Vasudans) have to build complex things that first convert the information into electrical form (be it analog or digital), then send it modulated into carrier signal (at least three means of modulation can be used; frequency modulation, amplitude modulation or polarization modulation - of these, only FM and AM are widely used on Earth) and finally a receiver converts the signal into comprehensive form - be it text, voice or picture. The Shivans need no devices, they can produce and receive radio signals with relative ease.

On this background it's quite simple to see what ETAK actually is: It's an emulator that produces a signal comprehensive to Shivans; an emulator, if you like. The problems encountered here are:

-what frequencies do Shivans use? This is relatively easy to find out, just listen to them with radio telescope and pick the right frequencies.

-what modulation type do they use? Equally easy to find out.

-what they say and what we say to them? This is the hardest problem to sove, and does not actually require hardware, but indeed more like software, actually a decyphering tool... And, as it seems, it didn't quite go as Bosch planned it. Or who knows? Perhaps he persuaded the Shivans to leave human-vasudan space. Anyway, as it seems, ETAK is more like a powerful computer or computer program that emulates a shivan receiver/transmitter and tries to convert normal(for us) information into Shivan form and vice versa. So, it certainly wouldn't need any external special antennae - it could very well use the ships own comm subsystem, which would very likely be more than capable at operating with Shivan frequencies.

That is all.  :)

Oh crap. I had this really nice antennae model here  ;)
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man and let history make its own judgments." -- Zefram Cochrane

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
  • 211
  • Bad command or file name
Oh crap. I had this really nice antennae model here  ;)

Didn't mean it couldn't have antennae... I only meant that should there be any antennae, they should not be specifically named as ETAK subsystem, but more like COMM 2 or something like that. It would actually make sense that the Iceni would have a boosted comm/sensor capacity, so it wouldn't be a bad thing if there were some additional antennae that are not visible on retail model... Just wanted to point out that the ETAK itself does not imply any additional special communication subsystems, it would more likely be a plug&play device that simplu uses ship's own comms.

It's entirely different if the additional antennae are supposed to just improve overall sensors/comms subsystems. The Iceni could really have some use on them in the Nebula...

So, what am I trying to say here? I'm getting a bit tangled... In one sentence: If the antenae fit into model, it's all good and well for me, but ETAK should have nothing to do with hardware... ;)
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline knn

  • 28
Oh crap. I had this really nice antennae model here  ;)

Didn't mean it couldn't have antennae... I only meant that should there be any antennae, they should not be specifically named as ETAK subsystem, but more like COMM 2 or something like that. It would actually make sense that the Iceni would have a boosted comm/sensor capacity, so it wouldn't be a bad thing if there were some additional antennae that are not visible on retail model... Just wanted to point out that the ETAK itself does not imply any additional special communication subsystems, it would more likely be a plug&play device that simplu uses ship's own comms.

It's entirely different if the additional antennae are supposed to just improve overall sensors/comms subsystems. The Iceni could really have some use on them in the Nebula...

So, what am I trying to say here? I'm getting a bit tangled... In one sentence: If the antenae fit into model, it's all good and well for me, but ETAK should have nothing to do with hardware... ;)

The Comms system is around that block below the "neck" IIRC. I though about removing it for the Cypher (GTVA's Iceni class Frigate from Derelict, a retexture originally), suggesting that it has something to do with Etak, a technology the Cypher doesn't have (I hope IRC).
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man and let history make its own judgments." -- Zefram Cochrane

 

Offline Sandwich

  • Got Screen?
  • 213
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Brainzipper
I haven't read this entire thread, but I just wanted to point out that IMO, the engines should all be perfect circles when viewed from directly behind, regardless of how they may have been stretched on the texture. Leave the oval-shaped engines to the Vasudans.
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline knn

  • 28
I haven't read this entire thread, but I just wanted to point out that IMO, the engines should all be perfect circles when viewed from directly behind, regardless of how they may have been stretched on the texture. Leave the oval-shaped engines to the Vasudans.

Difficult to achieve. I'd have to add engines, probably double them on the top array.

There:


or



or

« Last Edit: December 27, 2005, 11:35:57 pm by knn »
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man and let history make its own judgments." -- Zefram Cochrane

 

Offline knn

  • 28
However I could make the bottom engines more circular
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man and let history make its own judgments." -- Zefram Cochrane

 

Offline Sandwich

  • Got Screen?
  • 213
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Brainzipper
Could you make the frame you're constraining the engines to follow the edge of the rear part more closely? I think that'd free up enough room to explain the rest of the change away as artistic liscence. ;) I just really dislike stretched engines. :p
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline knn

  • 28
Could you make the frame you're constraining the engines to follow the edge of the rear part more closely? I think that'd free up enough room to explain the rest of the change away as artistic liscence. ;) I just really dislike stretched engines. :p



That would help for 2 of the 6 engines (though I'd still like to keep them a little bit elliptical, to fill out the space), but the top 4 would still have to be elliptical unless I remove/add engines.
"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man and let history make its own judgments." -- Zefram Cochrane

 

Offline WMCoolmon

  • Purveyor of space crack
  • 213
Adding/removing engines isn't a big deal balance-wise, unless that requires more subsystems. Which isn't a big deal anyways, because the Iceni isn't meant to be disabled in any mission that I can remember. (Maybe some obscure, multiplayer one?)
-C

 

Offline Sandwich

  • Got Screen?
  • 213
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Brainzipper
Looks improved IMO. How about the rest of you - what do you think?
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline BlackDove

  • Star Killer
  • 211
  • Section 3 of the GTVI
    • http://www.shatteredstar.org
I think the Iceni is Vasudan design in part (Colossuis texture), so the engines are justified and were fine as they were. (yeah yeah, NTF are against the Vasudans, no)

Besides, even if the above isn't true, it could be argued that Terran technology advancments in engines improved and use Vasudan models or whatever.

It's not so hard to explain or to imagine for the Iceni, a science experimental ship, to have oval engines.

Also, it looks much better with them being oval.

That be my opinion.

 

Offline Singh

  • Hasn't Accomplished Anything Special Or Notable
  • 211
  • Degrees of guilt.
A combination of the two would be best. For example - the two engine on the bottom sides look best rounded, IMO, as opposed to an off-angle elipse. however, the row on the top looks far better when it's eliptical, so perhaps a combinaion of the two would be beetter....
"Blessed be the FREDder that knows his sexps."
"Cursed be the FREDder that trusts FRED2_Open."
Dreamed of much, accomplished little. :(

 

Offline Black Wolf

  • Twisted Infinities
  • 212
  • Hey! You! Get off-a my cloud!
    • Visit the TI homepage!
I prefer the Oval engines.

[EDIT] Actually - Singh's right. Big Ovals up the top, circles on the smaller engine spots.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2005, 09:14:37 am by Black Wolf »
TWISTED INFINITIES · SECTORGAME· FRONTLINES
Rarely Updated P3D.
Burn the heretic who killed F2S! Burn him, burn him!!- GalEmp