[aldo_14]

Originally posted by TopAce
Normally, if the Sathanas is attacked from the back, it's quite vulnerable. How come Command did not recognise this?

I would have prefered an 'attack the Sathanas with everything we have got'-type mission to the High Noon mission we all know.

Of course, that's only me.

They probably expected the Sathanas would simply jump out if under that threat, or deploy defensive cover either through its own fighter/bomber complement or a supporting fleet.

High Noon should have been a proper engagement, definately.  But I guess it wasn't technically feasible for them....

[Gregster2k]

Originally posted by karajorma


1) Mjolnirs are new. I wish people would remember that before using them in arguments all the time. We've got no idea how long they take to manufacture or how many the GTVA has made so far. For all we know the Mjolnirs we see in Kings Gambit are the entire first production run.

Hmmm...good point.

[oohal]

bah the whole reason command sucked so bad is freespace 2 engine restrictions, can you imagin how slow it would run if you had half the GTVA armada attacking the sath. But still it would have been better to have some missions where you can see the awesome power of the big C wasting a dozen cruisers/corvetts

-oohal

[TopAce]

FreeSpace was not memory-devouring, not even its age. There could have been a better fight. I guess the point is rather the 'poly-per-screen' restriction.

[CFInsane]

like some of you said, the colossus was never meant to engage sathanas juggernauts, and the colossus is very INEFFECTIVE against the juggernauts.  a sathanas with the 4 beams fully functioning will tear the colossus to shreds in seconds, and i have tried it with FRED2.

but, the colossus wasnt weak **** either, it was VERY strong and VERY effective against other ship classes. it rips shivan crusiers and destroyers to bits.  i tried a scenario in FRED2 where the colossus is surrounded by 4 deimos class corvettes and 2 Orion destroyers, and yes, surrounded.  i also made a small fleet consisting of 6 aeolus class cruisers, 4 deimos class corvettes, an Orion, and an iceni ship move in to attack the colossus as a reinforcement fleet for the current attacking ones surrounding the colossus.  the colossus destroyed the surrounding corvettes and destroyers and destroyed the reinforcement fleet.  the colossus however does suffer a lot of damage because they were a lot of ships, but it survived with around 20 hull integrity left.

[Ghost]

Hmm... CFInsane, you've given me an idea(basically do exactly what you said you did).

By the way, welcome!

[Nuclear1]

(There, guys, the welcome beam has been fired. Could we try not to deep-fry this one? )

I like some of the points you just made, though I would like to continue on them a bit.

Whether this has been posted or not before, I would like to point out the reason why the Colossus was ineffective against the Sathanas: it wasn't designed to fight Saths. The Colossus was designed, IIRC, to destroy another Shivan Lucifer, and, as the Shivans attacked a second time with much more powerful weapons, the Sathanas was found to more than powerful enough to take down the Colossus--the GTVA apparently only prepared itself for what it knew that the Shivans had, but not by what the Shivans could have possibly had for them.

If you want a little more on this, you could read up on a slightly-related topic in the "Shivans, Beams, and the Great War" thread just around this one--my most recent post can vaguely explain what I just summarized.

[DarthWang]

Originally posted by TopAce

 Why do you blame the Colossus for not being able to stop this fleet? What ship could have?

The Death Star.

[DarthWang]

Originally posted by Mongoose
aldo, it did tear the hell out of the Sathanas, albeit a disabled one,  in High Noon.  I think that mission is the reason why I like the Colossus.  I had played through Bearbaiting about fifty times in a row, getting more and more frustrated each time, in order to get all four of the Sathanas's beams disabled. Then, when High Noon came around, all I had to do was sit back, relax, and watch the Colossus pump more firepower into the Sathanas than any other allied ship had shown up until that point.  I liked the dialogue about the ship's heat sinks being absolutely pushed to the limit, and watching those massive BFGreens pound into the Sathanas never got old.  When that thing finally went up in the game's most massive explosion of all (I think you could feel the shock wave at several thousand meters), I almost felt like cheering.  I can't really explain it, but that, I think, is why I'm a big C fan.

Actually, the game's most massive explosion of all occured in the last mission:D

[FireCrack]

Originally posted by CFInsane
like some of you said, the colossus was never meant to engage sathanas juggernauts, and the colossus is very INEFFECTIVE against the juggernauts.  a sathanas with the 4 beams fully functioning will tear the colossus to shreds in seconds, and i have tried it with FRED2.

but, the colossus wasnt weak **** either, it was VERY strong and VERY effective against other ship classes. it rips shivan crusiers and destroyers to bits.  i tried a scenario in FRED2 where the colossus is surrounded by 4 deimos class corvettes and 2 Orion destroyers, and yes, surrounded.  i also made a small fleet consisting of 6 aeolus class cruisers, 4 deimos class corvettes, an Orion, and an iceni ship move in to attack the colossus as a reinforcement fleet for the current attacking ones surrounding the colossus.  the colossus destroyed the surrounding corvettes and destroyers and destroyed the reinforcement fleet.  the colossus however does suffer a lot of damage because they were a lot of ships, but it survived with around 20 hull integrity left.

That's a whole GTVA fleet minus fighters and a few cruisers.

[Ghost]

Yes, which means the Big C kicks ass, FC.

[DarthWang]

Originally posted by Ghost
The other failing of the Colossus that I can think of was that it couldn't be used as a weapon of intimidation against sentient species. Shivans can't be reasoned with, and therefore can't be frightened.

Even if they could, I don't think the C would do it, considering they had an available fleet of at least 80 ships just as big and powerful as it was.

[FireCrack]

What happens if you surround a sath with an equivalent fleet?

[Nuclear1]

Originally posted by Ghost
Yes, which means the Big C kicks ass, FC.

That is assuming, of course, that nothing happens to the Colossus during the battle, such as overloading or redlining fire control or heat sinks as the Colossus did against the Sathanas. What is there to assume that the Colossus wouldn't do the same against a huge number of warships, which could all outflank the Colossus's weapons/destroy the weapons/cripple the ship in multiple ways and then finish it off?

The Colossus was mostly intended (IMO) to handle one-on-one engagements, be it with the Repulse, the Iceni, the predicted-Lucifer, or the Sathanas, but not large-fleet engagements, as some depict it as doing. The Colossus has a lot of firepower spread across its hull, and directing it into one target is much more effective than spreading it out over multiple vessels at the same time.

[DarthWang]

Originally posted by TopAce
Normally, if the Sathanas is attacked from the back, it's quite vulnerable. How come Command did not recognise this?

I would have prefered an 'attack the Sathanas with everything we have got'-type mission to the High Noon mission we all know.

Of course, that's only me.

I made a mission just like that! It's going to be in the campaign I'm making

[CFInsane]

Originally posted by FireCrack
What happens if you surround a sath with an equivalent fleet?

sath will probably get destroyed, but VERY slowly.  the sathanas will destroy everything in the front or in firing range of the beam cannons.

the reinforcing fleet, if coming in from the front, will get torn up.

a sathanas, is VERY strong and nearly impossible to assault from the front (unless you have bombers).  i matched up a small battle where a single sathanas faces off with a terran vasudan fleet.  the fleet is huge, and it consists of a hecate, orion, and hatshepsut destroyer.  the fleet has 4 deimos and 2 sobek class corvettes, 4 leviathan crusiers, 4 aeolus cruisers, and 5 aten cruisers(thses are useless)

on start, you see about 8-10 beams shooting at the sathanas and that probably puts the sathanas around 90-95 hull integrity.  then the sathanas shoots its beams, and on the first wave, 2 deimos corvettes get destroyed.  then eventually the entire fleet gets destroyed.  i added bombers into the mix to see what happens, and the sathanas does get destroyed, but all the captial ships are also gone.

[Jetmech Jr.]

The sathanas' rear/lower areas are protected by an LRed, which is more than enough to paste any destroyer. If you attack it from the rear, all it has to do is shift its front downwards ever so slightly, and any capship can kiss it's ass goodbye.

Whatsmore, the Sathanas can turn (OMGWTFBBQ!), meaning positioning means squat.

*Orion pops in behind a Sathanas

Admiral Newb: H4 H4! I 0wn3d j00, pR3p4R3 t0 D13!!10oneone!!!!1

*Orion fires BGreens and TerSlash's, bringing the Sathanas down to 99%

*Sathanas turns around

Admiral Newb: ****.

[Pnakotus]

I agree: all this 'OMFG t3h TGVA is soooooo dumbzor!!!11' stuff is inane.  Given SJs shape, a slight roll 'downwards' would bring the lower super-kill-you-fcuking-dead beams into play against anyone behind them, and do people really think it'd take the minutes required for SJ to turn around?  Sure, FS capship AI might be stupid, but THINK about this.

Course, I'd like to see an SJ with a proportional fighter/cap escort and not wandering around by itself, but hey, whatever.  Remember the Yamato?

[Ghost]

But nuke, come on. That was in there solely for storyline and "OMG THE COLOSSUS MIGHT DIE!!!11ELEVEN" stuff. As long as it keeps firing(and so will the fleet) then it'll prevail.

[Kie99]

The Colossus in High Noon had stronger beams than usual mounted on it. That's why the Reactors were blowing.

And on a side note, what's with all the l33t in this thread?