[Grunt]

Originally posted by kietotheworld

The Terrans lost 2 Orions over The First Great War (The GTD Galatea and the GTD Legion, Opening Cutscene, they are the only losses that are mentioned).  No destroyers' destruction was mentioned (Again IIRC) in the Second War against the Shivans, ...

3rd Fleet lost GTD Amadeus to the Shivans in Vega (2335).

More Vasudan destroyers lost in FS2 indeed.

Terran fleets lost several ships defected to the NTF and destroyed later (nothing to do with the Shivans of course).

[Charismatic]

Dam NTF..
Well Sol, tho i dont wish ti to be ture, could very well be descicrated(Sp?) for the mostpart with few surivivors, (as the vasudan ship yards survived orbiting..).

Im thinking, Sol would possibly send a 'life long' ship\crew out to GTVA.

Sence they were out of contact i think its possible, that they sent a crew, to fly in the direct path of hte lost node, to GTVA, to in several several eyars find them and contact them. I think we should have done it too. Send a ship out flying, so that their kids onbord would reach and find Gtva, if it took that long.

Tho i could find out, if anyone else knows offhand, what is the distance between Sol jump node and Gtva space? Is it a plasuable plight?

[Mongoose]

As someone else mentioned, Alpha Centauri is only a few light-years away.  You could send a ship traveling at 0.5 c, assuming Sol had that type of technology, and you'd be able to get there in under a decade.  At that speed, though, the time-distorting effects of relativity would begin to come into play. (I'm not sure to what extent, exactly.)   I've always thought it was interesting that there was apparently no radio communication between Sol and Alpha Centauri when, distance-wise, it would have been perfectly possible.  A few other GTVA systems are within ten or twenty light-years of Sol, as well.  Either some sort of interstellar material would scatter all transmissions from Sol outward, or the GTVI has been receiving messages and hasn't released news about them, possibly because they don't like what they're hearing...or maybe outgoing messages from Alpha Centauri have been met with nothing but silence

[FireCrack]

Mabye the subspace cataclysm surrouned sol with background radiation screening out any signals.


Mabye there was another way to eath and it was destroyed by the shivans.




Vasuda was rendered uninhabitable, there would be no going back.

The GTVA lost at the very least 5 destroyers in cambat against the shivans, coming to mind are.

GTD Galatea
GTD Minnow
GTD Leigon
GTD Repluse

[Kie99]

I don't remeber much of Silent Threat but isn't the GTD Repulse the same Repulse that rammed the Colossus?

[NGTM-1R]

I don't remember a Repluse from ST.

There was a Normandy mentioned in the FS2 CBanis that starred in a X mission for FS1.

[Taristin]

Vasudans.

I don't need to explain myself.

[Nuke]

Originally posted by Mongoose
As someone else mentioned, Alpha Centauri is only a few light-years away.  You could send a ship traveling at 0.5 c, assuming Sol had that type of technology, and you'd be able to get there in under a decade.  At that speed, though, the time-distorting effects of relativity would begin to come into play. (I'm not sure to what extent, exactly.)   I've always thought it was interesting that there was apparently no radio communication between Sol and Alpha Centauri when, distance-wise, it would have been perfectly possible.  A few other GTVA systems are within ten or twenty light-years of Sol, as well.  Either some sort of interstellar material would scatter all transmissions from Sol outward, or the GTVI has been receiving messages and hasn't released news about them, possibly because they don't like what they're hearing...or maybe outgoing messages from Alpha Centauri have been met with nothing but silence

it would be safe to assume both sides would be scanning for signals as well at transmitting them. surely a space fairing civilization would have developed long range, high lag communication protocals and equipment that could transmit that many light years distance. i think i read somewhere that alpha centauri was moving away from sol, so it would take slightly longer than 4.3 years.

[FireCrack]

Not repluse,somthing else wiht an R then.

[Charismatic]

Hmm. Well the Vasudans handeled the loss of their home planet well, we wouldent. They quickly moved and shifted to other main planets, we, dont have any but Vega IIRC.

And about 'well we had no losses in capella' or the like.

There is no possible way completely everyone or 'under 1,000 - 10,000 ppl' could excape. Thus, ranging from 1000 to 10,000 ppl must have died or been left behind. Capella was highly populated. Possibly more then one capella planet?? ANyways, could we completely evac earth, with everyone, even if it was All as popoulated as America (being no 3rd or 2nd world countries, all high teck peoples). There would be heavy losses, and tho their planet is uninhabitable, there is always chance. Nukes, tho make things uninhabited, will eventually get the radiation clear. We lost all planet loss. And not all planets are inhabitable.. so This was a big loss.

Our covoys, engaged, widespread, and quickly hurried, a good majority was mostlikely w\o fighter protection and probably destrooyed. Tho they did evacuate them, not all of them. In the last cutseen. They sent even Caps to engage all capella ships, excapeing. So the protecting friendly caps.. all lost. So we have a loss bigger then just civilians and transport ships were lost, military, large amounts of military and trained personel.

I wonder, where would they move to.. and how would the planets beable to handel that big mass of people all-of-a-sudden.

[Kie99]

Capella was evacuated when the first Sathanas entered GTVA Space.

[TopAce]

Could they completely evacuate Capella? I don't know about that, I guess they could not.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by ngtm1r
Immaterial. Question is who suffered most from the Great War; post-Second Shivan Invasion is outside the scope.

ummm. The question is who suffered more in both wars not just the Great War.

Originally posted by Grunt

Who suffered more ?

I mean from the Shivans in the two wars.

If you're going to arbritarily stick a cut-off point at the second Petrach stopped speaking then the Terrans suffered more. Sol's population was no doubt higher than it is now which means more than 6 billion terrans lost. Compare that with 4 Billion Vasudans and the terrans win on sheer numbers alone.

Personally I think that's a rather stupid way of doing things though. You always have to include future loss and mitigation of that future loss in any such appraisal.


As for the evacuation of Capella it's pretty certain they got almost everyone out. Petrach states that Command is committed to getting every single person out of Capella. Not showing much of a commitment to that if you then go and blow up the only way out of the system a few hours later.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Charismatic
Hmm. Well the Vasudans handeled the loss of their home planet well, we wouldent. They quickly moved and shifted to other main planets, we, dont have any but Vega IIRC.

And about 'well we had no losses in capella' or the like.

There is no possible way completely everyone or 'under 1,000 - 10,000 ppl' could excape. Thus, ranging from 1000 to 10,000 ppl must have died or been left behind. Capella was highly populated. Possibly more then one capella planet??

The population of Capella pre-evacuation was 250 million;
[q]A small task force will oversee the demolition of the Knossos while the bulk of the allied fleet blockades the jump node leading to the densely-populated Capella system. Command has begun the process of evacuating the two hundred fifty million civilians inhabiting Capella, the largest exodus since the Great War. The Colossus will remain in that system to engage the Sathanas should we fail.[/q]

Note that this briefing came before the first Sathanas was engaged; so a lot would have left prior to destruction.

At least 100,000 GTVA died in the evacuation from the Shivan fleet ( briefing prior to Colossus destruction)
[q]With over one hundred thousand casualties and more Shivans incoming, we have no hope of holding Capella.[/q]

Another briefing implies significantly less casualties than I would have thought (prior to Bastion escort mission)
[q]The majority of the fleet is fending off a massive attack at the Vega node. Thousands of civilians await evacuation[/q]

And in the final mission brief;
[q]Your objective is to defend our convoys as they flee through the Vega node. Cargo ships, personnel transports, medical vessels, and the remnants of the allied fleet are now in transit. These convoys are under heavy bomber fire. If we don't provide cover, thousands will die.[/q]

AFAIK there's no explicit statement as to whether Capella was a Terran or Vasudan - or both - planet, anyways; there is however a statement during one of the briefings along the lines of 'getting every last Terran out'; however, that may mean the players (Terran) fleet was only assigned to Terran ships, or simply that Vasudans don't like to run away and would just die instead (ala their escape pods).  Particularly as the position of Capella would appear IMO more suited to the Vasudans than Terrans colonizing it first.

[Grunt]

Originally posted by aldo_14

AFAIK there's no explicit statement as to whether Capella was a Terran or Vasudan - or both - planet, anyways; there is however a statement during one of the briefings along the lines of 'getting every last Terran out'; however, that may mean the players (Terran) fleet was only assigned to Terran ships, or simply that Vasudans don't like to run away and would just die instead (ala their escape pods).  Particularly as the position of Capella would appear IMO more suited to the Vasudans than Terrans colonizing it first.

The Terran 3rd fleet being stationed in Capella suggests that it was (mostly) populated by Terrans.
Not sure if there was any statement about the status of Capella in FS1 tho.

Calling a star system "densely populated" with only 250 million is also interesting. This is around the population of the greater countries on Earth.

Now assuming that one Argo transport may carry cca. 1000, and that all of them did 10 passes between Capella and Vega, implies that the total number of available ships in this category was about  25000 ...

I wouldn't have been a policeman at that jumpnode ...

[Fragrag]

Originally posted by FireCrack
Mabye the subspace cataclysm surrouned sol with background radiation screening out any signals.


Mabye there was another way to eath and it was destroyed by the shivans.




Vasuda was rendered uninhabitable, there would be no going back.

The GTVA lost at the very least 5 destroyers in cambat against the shivans, coming to mind are.

GTD Galatea
GTD Minnow
GTD Leigon
GTD Repluse

We did lose the GTD Bastion and another ship to collapse the nodes leading to Capella, albeit not directly by the Shivans, but still

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Grunt


The Terran 3rd fleet being stationed in Capella suggests that it was (mostly) populated by Terrans.
Not sure if there was any statement about the status of Capella in FS1 tho.

Calling a star system "densely populated" with only 250 million is also interesting. This is around the population of the greater countries on Earth.

Now assuming that one Argo transport may carry cca. 1000, and that all of them did 10 passes between Capella and Vega, implies that the total number of available ships in this category was about  25000 ...

I wouldn't have been a policeman at that jumpnode ...

Well, I'm not sure the 3rd fleets stationing there would be definitive, as it's not clear whether or not the Vasudan fleets can share a 'sector' with the Terrans (particularly as it's a wee bit murky whether Vasudan fleets are actually called 'Fleet' or 'Battlegroup').  It strikes me as most likely it is Terran, but Capella is really closer to Vasudan territory.

Capella could be densely populated in the sense it has sod-all habitable planets.  250m isn't a massive amount, though.  I think one of the early briefings mentions Cygnus Prime neeeding 300,000 GTVA troops to capture it, which sort of implies the GTVA doesn't have a huge population.

I think the Argo transport would have done well more than 10 trips each.  I think the in-jump time from Capella to Vega is maybe 15 minutes or so (IIRC this is referenced by the time it'll take the Nereid to come through and collapse the node)... so I think a 2-3 hour evacuation trip time is plausible.  And given that the evacutation of Capella began just after the first Sathanas was encountered, I'd guess they had maybe a week or so?

[Charismatic]

Seems you lost a 0 somewhere Grunt. Hehe.

Aldo: Dam, that makes me sad. 100,000+ casulties.. so much death. I think we should not have lost capella. Some hidden importance. Dont know why tho.

[freespacegundam]

The Terran race has probably suffered the greatest losses.  Sol is gone, much of the fleet was nearly wiped out in the Great War, and we have no idea exactly how many ships were lost in the Second Encounter.  And the loss of Capella, even assuming the majority of the population made it out, is staggering.  Once again, a major industrial and civilian population center was lost.

A note to remember, casualties does not mean just deaths.  In military terms, it includes both deaths and injuries.  Also, we're never told exactly what the number represents.  Ships? Stations? People? All of the above?  Fighter Pilots?  That has always nagged me as yet another thing command refuses to elaborate on.  Oh well.

[Kie99]

I've just realised how retarded the "Sol getting cut off is as bad as Vasuda being glassed" argument is.

Jesus Christ, do you people really think that a race being separated and most of both sides survive is as bad as 4 Billion Deaths and Vasuda being rendered uninhabitable?