[Grunt]

I mean from the Shivans in the two wars.
Was it the Vasudans or the Terran race ?
I was thinking about a command briefing text and couldn't answer this.
If it can be decided at all ..

[Black13]

I don't think this is hard at all - the vasudans.  

Though we lost the ability to return to earth (for now) the vasudans lost their homeworld.  

All their culture and history wiped away in mere hours.  While earth is cut off it is still there - and if you were born there and were stuck out in the Freespace 2 part of the galaxy at least you know that it is there, and it is ok - safe from the shivans

[Andreas]

Vasudans. After all, their homeworld was glassed by the Lucifer.

[TopAce]

Originally posted by Andreas
Vasudans. After all, their homeworld was glassed by the Lucifer.

Earth is not a way better: It wasn't destroyed, but contact was sealed, so it was also lost. Furthermore, it is not only the Earth that was lost, but the entire system, including any Terran mines refineries, shipyards or military forces. The Vasuda system suffered too, but it "only" lost one planet completely, not an entire sector.

In addition, the Terrans suffered more military losses, at least of what we saw from the Great War, there were not much Vasudan forces present.

This does not want to belie the quoted post, the quote's only purpose was to give me an idea of where to start[/size]

[Grunt]

Originally posted by Black13
I don't think this is hard at all - the vasudans.  

Though we lost the ability to return to earth (for now) the vasudans lost their homeworld.  

Interesting. That's what I wanted to write first.
Then I thought OK but what about Capella ? It was populated by Terrans and we have also lost it.
Vasuda Prime could at least be recovered and recolonized later.
A fair share of the population left both systems in time anyway.
The incursion came from Terran worlds in FS1, and the second invasion hardly touched Vasudan space.
As for the fleets, Terrans seem to have lost more ships all together.

So I'm still not fully convinced, though your version would fit my story better.

[Grunt]

I've cut this out from the FS2 Tech Room. It refers to the GVFr Bes Vasudan freighter:

"While some Terran systems languished in the post-war era, the Vasudans experienced an economic recovery that was miraculous, given the annihilation of their home planet. Experts credit the policies of the restored Imperial government that emerged following Khonsu II's dissolution of the Vasudan parliament. As commerce among the Vasudan systems resumed and expanded into Terran worlds, a new generation of space-faring cargo vessels was required to meet the needs of this burgeoning economy"

[Andreas]

True, but as said earlier, Terra was only severed from the GTA, not destroyed, unlike Vasuda. From purely a statistical point of view, 4 billion Vasudans died on Vasuda alone. I hardly think that even Terran and Vasudan losses of the T-V and the Great War combined would even come close to that figure. Of course the separation of Terra from rest of the GTA is tragical, but at least it wasn't destroyed.

And, one must remember that the main campaign of FS1 revolves greatly around the Terrans. Therefore we are not given an accurate picture of the Vasudan losses to the Shivans. They must have lost a fair share of their Typhons to the Shivans as well, since the debriefing for sm3-02a.fsm says "For protecting one of the few remaining Vasudan Typhon-class destroyers...".

But from a purely emotional point of view, the loss of the GTD Galatea was the greatest loss for me during the Great War.

[Grunt]

Yea.. that's true.
I'm almost convinced now..

[karajorma]

When contact with Sol is restored we'll see. For now the Vasudans have the biggest whining rights but if Earth has fallen into barbarism or has glassed itself in a big war as Command suspects then I'd say the terrans came off worse.

[NGTM-1R]

For all intents and purposes, Terra WAS destroyed, as there was no possiblity of ever getting there again. (At that time.) Just as if it were glassed, the people, ships, resources, and facilites of Terra were lost to the GTA seemingly for all time. Say they're not dead all you want. They might as well have been.

Based on FS1 CBanis and on other evidence, the Vasudans had a smaller, but more heavily populated and heavily industrialized empire, while much of what the Terrans held was sparsely populated and not capable of supporting the war effort. Put simply, the Vasudans could better afford to lose Vasuda Prime then the Terrans could afford to lose Earth.

[TopAce]

Originally posted by ngtm1r
...
Based on FS1 CBanis and on other evidence, the Vasudans had a smaller, but more heavily populated and heavily industrialized empire, while much of what the Terrans held was sparsely populated and not capable of supporting the war effort. Put simply, the Vasudans could better afford to lose Vasuda Prime then the Terrans could afford to lose Earth.

What a flourishing empire... they can afford four billion deaths.

[aldo_14]

I'd say Terra; as well as the aforementioned loss of the complete sol system, the inhospitable nature of Vasuda Prime IMO would leave the Vasudans more likely to colonize new planets, and thus be better equipped from the loss of a homeworld.

[Charismatic]

Vasudans cant cover ****, tho terrans do have Alpha 1, alpha one can still fail every mission. That would cover for 4 billion lives right there.

I think Terrans suffered more, tho i voted Vasudans, due to Vasuda Prime.

If Earth was destroyed, in FS..cough, i think id either suicide (Gamewise) or.. go off to fight those bastard shivasn.. in the next dimention.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by ngtm1r
For all intents and purposes, Terra WAS destroyed, as there was no possiblity of ever getting there again. (At that time.) Just as if it were glassed, the people, ships, resources, and facilites of Terra were lost to the GTA seemingly for all time. Say they're not dead all you want. They might as well have been.

Except that now that they've studied the Knossos they may very well be able to reopen the node to Sol.

[Kie99]

The Vasudans had 4 Billion deaths when the Lucifer Glassed Vasuda, and Capella had been evacuated before the SuperNova, they also lost a good few Typhons and the Psamtik.

The Terrans lost 2 Orions over The First Great War (The GTD Galatea and the GTD Legion, Opening Cutscene, they are the only losses that are mentioned).  No destroyers' destruction was mentioned (Again IIRC) in the Second War against the Shivans, and I think we can guess that the Terrans and Vasudans would have fairly equal losses in the unmentioned battles.

The Vasudans lost more, the Terrans will have a Second Armada when the Sol knossos is opened.

[aldo_14]

Depending on what's on the other end of the jump, though; Sol could have been glassed for all we know.  I'm assuming that what Sol does & doesn't have isn't a factor until it can be accessed - as it stands Sol is 'lost' all the way through FS2.

[MatthewPapa]

Originally posted by kietotheworld
The Vasudans had 4 Billion deaths when the Lucifer Glassed Vasuda, and Capella had been evacuated before the SuperNova, they also lost a good few Typhons and the Psamtik.

The Terrans lost 2 Orions over The First Great War (The GTD Galatea and the GTD Legion, Opening Cutscene, they are the only losses that are mentioned).  No destroyers' destruction was mentioned (Again IIRC) in the Second War against the Shivans, and I think we can guess that the Terrans and Vasudans would have fairly equal losses in the unmentioned battles.

The Vasudans lost more, the Terrans will have a Second Armada when the Sol knossos is opened.

Uhh, no. Definitely more destroyer losses than that.
Ever heard of Tombough station? How many did they lose there?

As far as population loss is concerned the vasudans beat the terrans pretty handily. But if you want to evaluate the situation economically and militarily the terrans definitely beat the vasudans there.

[NGTM-1R]

TopAce

What a flourishing empire... they can afford four billion deaths.

Better then the Terrans can afford a conservative 20 billion, yes? Nevermind other planets in the system or manufacturing capablities therein; Vasuda Primes' orbital shipyards survived, remember?

Originally posted by karajorma


Except that now that they've studied the Knossos they may very well be able to reopen the node to Sol.

Immaterial. Question is who suffered most from the Great War; post-Second Shivan Invasion is outside the scope.

[Andreas]

Originally posted by kietotheworld
The Terrans lost 2 Orions over The First Great War (The GTD Galatea and the GTD Legion, Opening Cutscene, they are the only losses that are mentioned).

Nope. Confirmed losses to the Shivans during the Great War are the GTD Amadeus, GTD Galatea and two other Orions (mentioned in the SB Nephilim tech entry). I don't know where this bloody Legion came from, but I'm not counting it as canon (not confirmed in-game, besides, we are never shown the nameplate of that Orion in that cutscene).

[Nuke]

sol knew that the shivans could still be out there, i had figured that they would push advances in weapons and ships about as much as the gtva has. im suprised that no attempt at radio/laser communication  was attempted between sol and alpha centauri for example, it would have several years of lag but it would still alow both sides to send news and information to eachother, including info on new technologies and such. i dont see sol as a loss but rather a safe area of advancement. assuming the shivans didnt find a way to invade that system. as far as the gtva is concerned, with sol out of the picture, they are about on equil footing, nither has a home planet, both have about the same number of colonies. fleets are about the same. so its even