[vyper]

Originally posted by Kalfireth
It was a brilliant execution of tired old innovations. It looked pretty and it had a nice polish on it, but what would you say it really did...?

Moving vehicles... we've been there. Physics... we've been there. Graphically it stood strong, but graphics alone do not a game make.

Has the mainstream audience been there? The non-hardcore folk who just buy a game and couldn't tell you a polygon from a PCI slot.

[NGTM-1R]

Originally posted by vyper

Has the mainstream audience been there? The non-hardcore folk who just buy a game and couldn't tell you a polygon from a PCI slot.

If not, then really, it's their own damn fault.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by vyper


Has the mainstream audience been there? The non-hardcore folk who just buy a game and couldn't tell you a polygon from a PCI slot.

Yep.  I can't think of a single HL2 feature that wasn't already present in some other released game; physics/graphics in Far Cry, vehicles in FPS' since Goldeneye (and before; that's the earliest that comes to mind for me, though, not being a PC player at that time period).  Dsytopian future is a cliche since Bladerunner, zombies since Res Evil 1 (and before; not sure what the first FPS to have them would be, but Return to Wolfenstein had zombie-things for one)

The Gravity gun was probably the most innovative thing, but even then it amounted to another way to chuck things.  Oddly enough, offhand I can't remember too many times when the 'natural' physics (as opposed to setpieces) actually were valuable in playing, anyways.

I was impressed by HL2 when I first played it, but over time I've grown to dislike it; it's repetitive, short on variety (of enemies and weapons in particular), and the storyline (not the setting; that's actually one of the best I've seen, but it doesn't impact as much without context IMO) breaks the classic rule of rewarding the player for playing; my expectation is that any answers eventually given in sequels will ultimately be fairly bog-standard and disappointing.

[Nico]

Originally posted by aldo_14
zombies since Res Evil 1 (and before; not sure what the first FPS to have them would be, but Return to Wolfenstein had zombie-things for one)

FPS? Well, Shadowcaster (made by Raven, using wolfeinstein 3D engine, so, something like the second or third FPS ever). And I wonder if Spear of Destiny (wolf3D retail) did not have zombies, actually.

[Carl]

Originally posted by aldo_14
short on variety (of enemies and weapons in particular)

see, now i don't see why people keep on saying that. there are more different types of enemies in HL2 than in HL. Are people grouping the C.P.s, Overwatch, and Elite Overwatch into one bad guy?

And with the gravity gun, everything is a weapon.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Carl


see, now i don't see why people keep on saying that. there are more different types of enemies in HL2 than in HL. Are people grouping the C.P.s, Overwatch, and Elite Overwatch into one bad guy?

And with the gravity gun, everything is a weapon.

CPs, Overwatch and Elite virtually are the same enemy.  Nearly identical weapons, human, and the same basic appearance (face with gasmask).

In total, there's 13 enemies (http://www.planethalflife.com/half-life2/enemies/)  I'm excluding the mines there & counting the 2 OW types seperately. Headcrabs are much of a muchness, so I'm counting them also as one.

So... the chopper isn't massively different from the (admittedly cool) gunship.  The scanners are totally pointless.  The manhacks are the same after you get the GG.  And the barnacle is the same as the mines.

The zombies have variation, but it's still upon the same theme.  The antlions are by far the most interesting.  Striders could have been cool, but they're barely used; only at one bit IIRc can you actually get under and about them.

In terms of gameplay, IMO there's only 4 different enemies - flying big things that you destroy with rockets (and also the strider; you never really take on an APC, although I guess that'd count), things that rush you (crabs, fast zombies & lions), ones that amble towards you and attack melee (zombies), and ones that stand and shoot at you (combine).

And I, as an aside, found the weapons uninspired & weedy.  None really felt powerful or satisfying in the same way as in other games (such as the P90 in Far Cry or most of the Call of Duty weapons)

[Divine Wind]

I would have to agree that Half Life 2 wasn't that great....I am however happy that VUG is losing Valve, and half of their revinue (the other half from blizzard).   I have a long-standing grudge against VUG for ruining the Tribes games...

Tribes 2 > All other FPS

*Prepares to be brutally maimed and tortured*

[Turnsky]

Steam's good in concept, but the execution was completely off, for example, neat little menu that allows you to connect and chat with other users of the game, deathmatch them, etc ,etc, not to mention patching..

however, the -REQUIREMENT- that you have to have the internet in order to play the game, hell, even install it.. is stupid. nice idea to go above the heads of publishers, but, the 'net to play requirement has clearly earnt the ire of many a gamer.

i actually bought the HL2 CD's under the impression that i'd bypass steam to a degree, much to my dismay, this was not the case.

that said, things like blizzard's autoupdate, and bioware's update software win against things like steam, simply because you do not require the internet to play the game out of the box..
HL2, wasn't "playable" right out of the box, you still had to go through a lot of bull**** in order to simply play the damn thing.

[Fineus]

Originally posted by vyper
Has the mainstream audience been there? The non-hardcore folk who just buy a game and couldn't tell you a polygon from a PCI slot.

Although the answer to that has already been tackled by others, I would like to raise this point:

Should we really applaud developers for catering to the lowest common denominator? For the masses? Taking the same old formula, rehashing it and then spitting it out with a glossy new pixel shader just shouldn't cut it. It'd be similar to saying that something based on Eastenders, Big Brother or some other bland yet successful product is a good idea.

[Unknown Target]

There's a funny trend with Half Life 2 that I'm noticing - when the game first came out, pretty much the entire gaming and publishing community was 10000% behind it. However, as time progresses, more and more people are coming to dislike this game and Valve's pompous attitude towards it's consumers - showed in how they chose to distrubite it.


But here's the thing - now that everyone has Steam and has tried it, when Half Life 3 comes out, hardly anyone's gonna want to go through that mess. Either Valve will fix the problems people had with Half Life 2, or people will start to not buy it. Valve, in planning a sequel, has sealed their fate, because now the consumers are informed. The only reason that people bought Half Life 2 was because, as stated before, no one knew what it'd be like. On top of that, it was a continuation of Half Life, and it was something "new" - or at least it seemed like it. Sort of how a movie looks cool the first time, then the second time it's just dumb. Now that people know what everything's really like, they won't be so blindly faithful to Valve. In truth, I think only the die-hard Half Life fans, or the people with Steam still on their computer, will actually buy Half Life 3 if it includes Steam.

[Krackers87]

Originally posted by Divine Wind
I would have to agree that Half Life 2 wasn't that great....I am however happy that VUG is losing Valve, and half of their revinue (the other half from blizzard).   I have a long-standing grudge against VUG for ruining the Tribes games...

Tribes 2 > All other FPS

*Prepares to be brutally maimed and tortured*

Tribes 2 was indeed great. I refused to buy vengeance however after reading the reviews, and shall refuse to buy HL3 after having to go through that crap fest of a game.

and its rather sad dynamix is no more.

[Sigma957]

Well I luv'd HL2 and whenever I want to play it now I do so offline.  

[Ghost]

EA to be new Half Life publisher

=(

[Divine Wind]

yea, RIP Dynamix....I'm glad i didnt get Tribes Vengeance, since it was a complete pile of....you know.   I played the Demo for 5 minutes and knew the game was bad.   HL2 on the other hand, I thought (along with probably 999999 other people) that the good graphics and hype about it meant it would be good...and i was terribly mistaken

HL2 merely disguises its gameplay failings with the graphics...and as much as I hate VUG,  I doubt EA will make any improvements.  Still, it is a good day for VUG haters everywhere..

[Sigma957]

Well I dislike VUG because they cancelled B5:ITF when they consumed sierra

[Turnsky]

Originally posted by Sigma957
Well I dislike VUG because they cancelled B5:ITF when they consumed sierra

we'll still have IFH, and TBP, so it's not -that- bad.. they're free!

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Unknown Target
There's a funny trend with Half Life 2 that I'm noticing - when the game first came out, pretty much the entire gaming and publishing community was 10000% behind it.

| wasn't. I knew what a load of sh*te Steam was and I complained about it several times. There were quite a few people pointing out the flaws in game due to Steam but not many people wanted to listen unfortunately.

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Turnsky


we'll still have IFH, and TBP, so it's not -that- bad.. they're free!

[color=66ff00]Another thing about an 'official' B5 game is that the owner would probably clamp down on mods, J.M.S. on the other hand seems quite happy to have people promote his work.
[/color]

[NGTM-1R]

Originally posted by Nico

FPS? Well, Shadowcaster (made by Raven, using wolfeinstein 3D engine, so, something like the second or third FPS ever). And I wonder if Spear of Destiny (wolf3D retail) did not have zombies, actually.

The original Wolfenstein had zombies in the later episodes. I remember them well.

And I fart in the general direction of those who whine about Tribes: Vengence. I fell in love with the demo. This was what I had always envisioned classic sci-fi mecha combat as being like. Five minutes in and I was already envisioning a Starship Troopers (the book, or maybe the game) or Robotech mod. The MechWarrior series matched its own reality, but Battlecry should have felt like T:V did.

Perhaps the gameplay is integral to the series and nothing changed. I don't really care. I never bought the previous versions because I never buy online-only games. Navyfield, when it goes retail, will probably be the only exception.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Maeglamor

[color=66ff00]Another thing about an 'official' B5 game is that the owner would probably clamp down on mods, J.M.S. on the other hand seems quite happy to have people promote his work.
[/color]

Pity we can't get an official reccomendation from the man himself then