[Martinus]

[color=66ff00]I managed to fix the 'steam' problem the other day and so reinstalled HL2. I'd heard about a few mods that had been well recieved and whilst hunting them down stumbled upon 'Garry's mod'.

For those of you unfamiliar with it, it's a sandbox for playing with the physics engine basically. You can create all sorts of stuff and manipulate it via ropes and pulleys, balloons (make things float), thrusters (self explainatory), etc.

I took great delight in spawning Barney, placing him in a wheelbarrow and attaching some thrusters to the back of it. I think you can picture the results. Attaching a thruster to a NPC is hilarious in it's own right.

Check it out if you're so inclined.
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[Tieowbeijas]

I've been trying to make a comic using Garry's Mod, problem is that I really suck at the final editing in photoshop, which will make the end result horrid.
Making stupid stuff, like attaching a few crates together to make some sort of "cockpit" and adding a few strong thrusters is always fun (just remember to put god mode on).

[CP5670]

Tried this one already; great mod.

By the way, you know at the beginning of the ravenholm level, where there is the pair of legs hanging from a tree? If you shoot those legs from a certain angle with the magnum, they can get stuck in the branches and go completely haywire, vibrating and swinging all over the place at an extreme speed. For some reason, I used to be able to do this every single time on my old computer configuration but find it very hard to do it on my new one, even though the game version is the same.

Speaking of physics effects, why does just about every modern game use the Havok physics engine even though it sucks so bad? I mean, I'm glad they do since I love messing around with these things, but this engine seriously goofs up more often than it actually works. Vibrating dead bodies have become a standard feature these days.

Deus Ex: Invisible War has some nice physics effects possible as well. I'll post some screenshots I have when I get home.

[Tieowbeijas]

Another thing I've noticed about most Havok "powered" games is that bodies seem to be very light. One thing that they really got right in Doom 3 was that bodies weren't as light and bouncy as they are in HL2 for example.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by CP5670
Tried this one already; great mod.

By the way, you know at the beginning of the ravenholm level, where there is the pair of legs hanging from a tree? If you shoot those legs from a certain angle with the magnum, they can get stuck in the branches and go completely haywire, vibrating and swinging all over the place at an extreme speed. For some reason, I used to be able to do this every single time on my old computer configuration but find it very hard to do it on my new one, even though the game version is the same.

Speaking of physics effects, why does just about every modern game use the Havok physics engine even though it sucks so bad? I mean, I'm glad they do since I love messing around with these things, but this engine seriously goofs up more often than it actually works. Vibrating dead bodies have become a standard feature these days.

Deus Ex: Invisible War has some nice physics effects possible as well. I'll post some screenshots I have when I get home.

Havok is used by Deus Ex:IW as well, in case you didn't know.  Um... computers don't really have the power AFAIK to do a proper physics simulation yet; I guess that, combined with mistakes implementing them (i.e. weight assignments to characters), leads to unconvincing results.

[Fineus]

Originally posted by Tieowbeijas
Another thing I've noticed about most Havok "powered" games is that bodies seem to be very light. One thing that they really got right in Doom 3 was that bodies weren't as light and bouncy as they are in HL2 for example.

Doom 3 has really rocketed in my estimation lately. Since I got a decent sound card / RAM I've been able to run it in Ultra High mode with all the settings tweaked and the high detail mods at about 50fps consistently.

Fact is that that engine seems to work really really nicely. Things can be a little shiny but generally the whole world seems to be well put together and far better polished than HL2s. Everything quite simply seems to work.

[Tieowbeijas]

Originally posted by aldo_14
 Um... computers don't really have the power AFAIK to do a proper physics simulation yet; I guess that, combined with mistakes implementing them (i.e. weight assignments to characters), leads to unconvincing results.

That may be (kindof atleast) solved with the AGEIA PhysX chip (http://www.ageia.com/). Seems like Epic is implementing support for it in some future game (UT2K7 I'd guess). So all that is needed is that game developers start giving the bodies realistic weight properties if they also chose to support the PhysX chip.

[Admiral LSD]

Originally posted by Kalfireth

Doom 3 has really rocketed in my estimation lately. Since I got a decent sound card / RAM I've been able to run it in Ultra High mode with all the settings tweaked and the high detail mods at about 50fps consistently.

Fact is that that engine seems to work really really nicely. Things can be a little shiny but generally the whole world seems to be well put together and far better polished than HL2s. Everything quite simply seems to work.

Pity that still doesn't make the game any less of a generic, cookie-cutter run and gun FPS...

[CP5670]

Does Doom 3 use Havok or its own thing? I didn't notice quite as many physics screwups there as in most other games. Although there was one instance when a zombie died inside a doorway and once the door closed up, the body vibrated as violently as anything I've seen in DXIW.

Fact is that that engine seems to work really really nicely. Things can be a little shiny but generally the whole world seems to be well put together and far better polished than HL2s. Everything quite simply seems to work.

D3 was generally a much better game than the vastly overhyped HL2, both graphically and gameplay wise, atlhough still wasn't anything really special (the story was nice and detailed though). I thought Far Cry and SCCT were considerably better than either of these as far as gameplay went.

Havok is used by Deus Ex:IW as well, in case you didn't know.  Um... computers don't really have the power AFAIK to do a proper physics simulation yet; I guess that, combined with mistakes implementing them (i.e. weight assignments to characters), leads to unconvincing results.

I know, and in fact the DXIW implementation is more prone to glitches than even the others. But aren't there any competitors to Havok? Some of the Unreal Warfare games use something called Karma, which doesn't have ragdolls but also has a lot less weirdness. While accurate physical simulations are extremely intensive and basically require supercomputers, I think these bugs and glitches can still be avoided. When dead bodies in games shake and vibrate so often that you expect them to do that, it's safe to say that there is something wrong.

[aldo_14]

Yes, there are other physics middlewares out there.  Karma is actually used by quite a few games, I think.  Aegeia also are developing/have their own middleware, and DNF will use another middleware (which I think is OS) if it ever is released.

Doom3 uses proprietary physics.  I think, though, it does have less mobile objects than HL2, which may allow more precise simulation across a reduced scope.

[Fineus]

Originally posted by Admiral LSD
Pity that still doesn't make the game any less of a generic, cookie-cutter run and gun FPS...

Because HL2 was so much more innovative?

Edit: As for Doom 3s physics.. there was quite a nice moment in the Alpha Labs section where you find yoursef in a room with no way to proceed, then then the lights dim / turn red as you go near a window at the far end and a whole load of boxes / science stuff float up off the floor and rocket at you, smashing the window.

It's true that individual objects in Doom 3 (such as boxes and such) seem a lot less detailed than in HL2 for instance, but everything seems much better placed. HL2s execution just feels... messy.

[Admiral LSD]

It doesn't take an awful lot to be more innovative than iD...

[Fineus]

Like what?

[Nico]

Originally posted by Admiral LSD


Pity that still doesn't make the game any less of a generic, cookie-cutter run and gun FPS...

WHy would you want it otherwise? It's Doom, not Microsoft Encarta

[CP5670]

It doesn't take an awful lot to be more innovative than iD...

True, but HL2 didn't even manage that. It was the first game I've played in years that I considered giving up halfway through because of how dull and repetitive it was becoming, not just in terms of the gameplay but also the level design and plot. My brother in fact did so, although I eventually decided to play it through to the end since I had already spent a lot of time with it. The last couple of levels weren't bad actually, but you had to sit through the terribly monotonous first nine or so levels to get to that point. D3 got rather repetitive later on as well, but there at least the story gave an incentive to keep playing.

I don't think a game necessarily needs to be innovative in order to be considered good though, as long as it has well balanced and fun gameplay and an overall polished feel. FS1 was like this actually, putting the best parts of the space sims that had come before it into an excellent overall package.

[Tieowbeijas]

Originally posted by aldo_14
DNF will use another middleware (which I think is OS) if it ever is released.

It's gonna use Meqon, which hopefully will have better precision and speed than Havok, atleast it looks like it from the demos (found at http://www.meqon.com/)

Some of the Unreal Warfare games use something called Karma, which doesn't have ragdolls but also has a lot less weirdness.

UT2k3/2k4 has ragdolls, although the effect is not as overpronounced as in HL2, corpses also fall quite nicely although they have a tendency to slide down hills (like the corpses in Far Cry).



As for Doom 3, I've never had any bad experiences with the physics, sure, they aren't as massively used as in HL2, but they never mess up on me, what I like the most though is that the corpses of zombies fall down in a "realistic" way, instead of slowly falling down (with a backflip, like in HL2 when you shoot some Combine CP in the head with the revolver).

[MicroPsycho]

i have noticed that havok causes bodies to go almost weightless and it bugs me, Doom 3 had great physics. did anyone notice that some of the creature's flesh kind of 'sunk' down because of weight?

[Jetmech Jr.]

Seems to be a general Rule of thumb that any HL2/Doom3 thread evolves (devolves) into a HL2 vs. D3 thread.

Oh, how I missed ye, HLP.

[Fineus]

This time that'd be my bad - sorry

Honest to god, I wouldn't have bought D3 up if I hadn't just uninstalled HL2 and Steam in favour of installing Doom 3 instead.

[Unknown Target]

No I didn't notice that, but I will say that HL2's physics really aren't that great, and it's graphics have almost no dynamic lighting (if any).

I've been saying it since it came out - Doom 3 is a better game. It's way more fun, imo, and I like the cookie cutter formula, mostly because I've gotten tired of the next "ULTRA SUPER REAL" shooter.

But UT2k3/2k4 definately has better phyics than HL2, even if the bodies don't seem very heavy when they hit the ground.