[Mefustae]

@StratComm: Good to see someone actually giving the facts, reading the thread just got me a little pissed off by people saying this was 'equal to' or 'worse than the Tsunami'...but, then again, this is the US we 're talking about here, and as the rest of the World should know, American lives are just worth a damn sight more than everyone else's...

...Now, in terms of what's going to occur after the evacuations have been completed (if they're ever completed), there are going to be major problems in repairing the City and making it livable again, and I mean to a degree that it might just be too far gone to save.

Ordinarily, after a flood has gone down in a few days, one can simply move back into one's house, clear out the mud, repaint, and replace the furnature etc. No real harm done (yes, I realise i'm simplifying to the nth degree, just gimme a minute).

In N.O., not only are the flood waters likely to be there for something like three damn weeks, but in that water, is a considerably high level of debris; wood, metal, animal (including Human) carcasses, etc. That's not really the problem, as this is usually the case after a disaster of this magnitude. What i'm talking about here, is the industrial waste and massive levels of chemicals and such that are in the water from the local Industrial sites gutted by Floods, meaning that this **** is bloody near Toxic.

This is going to be a major, major problem that the US is going to face when the evacuation debacle is over. Most of the city is devestated in, as one of you so elloquently phrased before, a Hiroshima-style fashion (only a month or two after the 60th Anniversary...oh the ****ing irony of it all), so we're talking a near complete reconstruction...frankly, the US Government was and still is struggling with debt (I believe the Japanese has several Trillion loaned to them at the moment for example), and with the reconstruction of Iraq, the global troubles with Oil and such, and now this Disaster...well, to coin a phrase; 'something's gotta give'...

Originally posted by Roanoke
I couldn't believe the reports of people shooting at the Relief choppers.

Believe it mate, this is Human Nature at its best. It doesn't matter whether you live in a Mansion in the hills above LA, or a Wooden shack on the streets of Mogadishu, at heart, we're all a bunch of ****ing savages at heart, ready to do anything - namely murder - to make sure we survive...

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Bobboau
because there are third world countrys that could...would... no, have handled situations like this far better than we have.

it's a major American city, left lawless, broken, stinking of waist and decaying human bodies, and otherwise utterly destroyed, overnight. you don't see why I might be releaved that it isn't getting much atention?

Hell the asian Tsumani affected an enormously bigger area, caused more devestation and was dealt with far better by every country involved. Look at India for instance. They actually refused international aid and helped out their neighbours.

As for coverage in the rest of the world this is going to become more famous as time passes.

Originally posted by deep_eyes
and maybe double the capacity of the Asian Tsunami.

You're having a f**king laugh if you think that the Asian Tsunami was a lesser disaster than this one in ANY terms except the reactions of people involved. Tsunami's are completely different animals from storm surges and as StratComm put it that isn't even the issue affecting New Orleans.

[Flipside]

Well, there were still atrocities taking pl;ace after the Asian Tsunami, including multiple rapes of girls who had been washed up on the shore etc. But however, yes, the attitude displayed at New Orleans is of a people who can no longer tell the difference between not being able to eat and not being able to catch their favourite TV program.

Theres a lesson to be learnt there, about learning what is really important.

[DaBrain]

I'm really surprised how slow the US government reacts to this catastrophe.
Maybe 'surprised' is not the right word - I can't belive it.

They spend millions on missle defense systems, which probably won't be needed anyway, but they refuse to help when people really need it?

Other nations offered help, but G.W. Bush refused, cause the "USA are able to handle it on their own"...

They probably are, but why didn't they do anything noticeable?


@Bob Here in germany we hear and read a lot about the New Orleans disaster.

[Bobboau]

the tsunami coment that has everyone bent out of shape, yeah, obviusly 250,000 people dead is worse than 10,000 people dead, I think the comment was more along the lines of, were it hit it was worse than were the tsunami hit, and thought this was also wrong, you do have to consiter the fact that the tsunami hit, did it's damage, and was over with in a few minutes, and people could come in with stuff right away, in NO, the water is still riseing, in the areas affected it's more desperate than the areas affected by the tsunami, even though the area is miniscule incomparison to that of the tsunami.

[Mefustae]

Originally posted by DaBrain
Other nations offered help, but G.W. Bush refused, cause the "USA are able to handle it on their own"...

Huh? I know for a fact that Australia's offer for Aid has been made and accepted by the US - or at least, we're sending it anyway - but then, it's not exactly a massive amount of aid, something around Aus$ 20 Million... what? We're not exactly the biggest country in the world... We could send more, we just don't want to... Give us a break already...!

[Stealth]

Originally posted by Rictor
I simply refuse to believe, flat out literally refuse, that extensive looting and organized criminal activity could be going on under such circumstances, in the middle of the United States, with the government standing idly by.

believe it.  that's what most of america can't believe either.

[redmenace]

Originally posted by Zuljin
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4207202.stm

 

I wonder how this will turn out.
As stated in the article, these soldiers are being sent from Iraq, or have atleast previously been there, so they should know what they are doing.

Ok, that is NOT what the aricle said. it says "They have M-16s and are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and I expect they will," Kathleen Blanco said. Secondly, I don't think that national gaurdmans will be willing to shoot on civilians. There would have to be a great deal of provocation involved.

[Stealth]

Originally posted by Depth_Charge
no offence, but its their fault for the remaining ppl who stay behind, cause some say that their house survive some cat. 2 or 3 hurricaine, and this came in, flatten most the gulf......and another thing is why the hell is the ppl down there are shooting at national guards and others trying to get the ppl out, its just not right........

everyone that COULD leave, DID leave except very few.  the poor that don't have a car, couldn't leave, and thus made their way to the "relief" centers before the hurricane hit, such as the superdome...

[vyper]

Originally posted by redmenace
Ok, that is NOT what the aricle said. it says "They have M-16s and are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and I expect they will," Kathleen Blanco said. Secondly, I don't think that national gaurdmans will be willing to shoot on civilians. There would have to be a great deal of provocation involved.

Then they better become willing, or this situation will spiral further out of government control and into the hands of common thugs.

[redmenace]

oh I am sure they will. That is what they are train for. However, don't get the idea that they are trigger happy.

[Zuljin]

Originally posted by redmenace
Ok, that is NOT what the aricle said. it says "They have M-16s and are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and I expect they will," Kathleen Blanco said. Secondly, I don't think that national gaurdmans will be willing to shoot on civilians. There would have to be a great deal of provocation involved.

My bad, I found the norwegian translation of the article and apparently they seem to have some.. "difficulties" in translating things properly.
I just copy pasted the source link and based it on what I read earlier.
Which was folish enough from my side.
So just ignore the last part of my previous post, the first part remains true however..

[StratComm]

And here we've got the damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario involving the deployment of troops to restore order.  It obviously has to be done, but as soon as they hit the streets people start complaining about a percieved threat to their own safety.

Also, the number of people needing evacuation is much higher than those that actually went to the shelters like they were told to.  Most of the people you see or hear about looting or shooting are people who, for whatever reason, decided to ride the storm out in their own homes.  Even if these people were unable to leave the city, they still chose not to take shelter at a designated facility.  It makes relatively little difference, I'll admit, but it is a difference just the same.

[karajorma]

What's Bush up to while this is all going on? I've not seen him mentioned during the news broadcasts.

[IPAndrews]

Originally posted by karajorma
What's Bush up to while this is all going on?

"Now watch this drive!"

[redmenace]

Originally posted by karajorma
What's Bush up to while this is all going on? I've not seen him mentioned during the news broadcasts.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/02/D8CC5RGO0.html
[url]http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/01/MTFH46447_2005-09-01_20-33-54_DIT140857.html
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/01/D8CBM4AG5.html
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/01/D8CBGP7G1.html
http://reuters.myway.com/article/20050901/2005-09-01T130142Z_01_DIT140857_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-WEATHER-BUSH-DC.html
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050901/D8CBFFMO1.html
http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/2005/08/31/20050831_204000_flash3ba1.htm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050831/pl_afp/usweatherbush_050831185122&printer=1;_ylt=ArXFxfJRKQu1nHQ6gDpWAu.tOrgF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/30/D8CA9UQG0.html

[karajorma]

Glad to see he's actually doing something apart from releasing oil then. I haven't watched the news much recently but all I'd heard was about him visiting the affected area (Something most politicans seem to do even though it generally about as useful for the people in the area as a chocolate teapot).

[Stealth]

Originally posted by karajorma
What's Bush up to while this is all going on? I've not seen him mentioned during the news broadcasts.

The day the hurricane hit he didn't cancel his 'appointments'... just like he did on 9/11.  

Then, this morning he gets on the news and says "Please don't buy gas unless you need it"... as if we all have a habit of going out and buying gasoline for the heck of it.

Two nights ago, i walked into a restaurant, and gas was $2.71.  when i came out, both gas stations across the street were at $3.40.  this wasn't even two hours later.  I saw another gas station with $3.05, so i went to that station...... they were out of gas.  first time i've ever seen a large gas station out of gas in my life.  and city-wide people are paying in the mid $3s.  granted this morning it dropped back down a lot... like $2.89, but still really close to $3.00... and they say within a month there are going to be lines a mile long for gasoline.  this is Houston, our gasoline consumption is probably top 3 of all the USA.

I bet Bush when he flies over is looking out the wrong side of the plane.  "Mr. President... New Orleans is THAT side... you're looking at the lake"

[redmenace]

This is the same reaction we saw after 9/11

[vyper]

The irony is Marine 1 probably burns more fuel in one trip like this than any car user would in a week.