Author Topic: The Problem With Linux  (Read 27225 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Martinus

  • Aka Maeglamor
  • 210
    • Hard Light Productions
[color=66ff00]What filesystem did you try out of interest? Reiser?
[/color]

 

Offline Ryx

  • Twilight Falling
  • 29
  • Away in RL land. Back later.
I currently have Win XP and Fedora Core 3 on the laptop and I'm currently trying to decide wether I should give Gentoo (A64) another go (pre-compiled route, as far as possible) or go with Ubuntu on my main comp.

Decisions, decisions...

/ Goes back to "debugging" BIND
Intel C2D E6850|4Gb RAM|Abit IP35 PRO|ATI X1900 XT

 

Offline WMCoolmon

  • Purveyor of space crack
  • 213
Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]What filesystem did you try out of interest? Reiser?
[/color]


First ext3, then XFS, then settled on JFS. I've had severe reliability problems with reiser in the past because the computer got shut off, and I've actually always wanted to try XFS anyway because it sounded the best in some research I did ~a year or two ago.
-C

 

Offline Bobboau

  • Just a MODern kinda guy
    Just MODerately cool
    And MODest too
  • 213
ok, the solution to the newb problem, as I have said, is for the specalised nature of Linux to be exploited in an avenue that it seems it currently isn't. the solution is not for there to be one linux, but for there to be one newb linux, a distro bult from the ground up to get people familurized with the linux basics, get them comfortable with the way things work, extreemly easy to install, by default selecting all the little details for you allowing you to go back and change them later if you want, or haveing an advanced option in the instalation. this distro would need to have maximal compatability ad the nicest looking interface (by default), and everyone in the linux comunity would need to send everyone to this newb disrto when they are starting out.
Bobboau, bringing you products that work... in theory
learn to use PCS
creator of the ProXimus Procedural Texture and Effect Generator
My latest build of PCS2, get it while it's hot!
PCS 2.0.3


DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Martinus

  • Aka Maeglamor
  • 210
    • Hard Light Productions
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
ok, the solution to the newb problem, as I have said, is for the specalised nature of Linux to be exploited in an avenue that it seems it currently isn't. the solution is not for there to be one linux, but for there to be one newb linux, a distro bult from the ground up to get people familurized with the linux basics, get them comfortable with the way things work, extreemly easy to install, by default selecting all the little details for you allowing you to go back and change them later if you want, or haveing an advanced option in the instalation. this distro would need to have maximal compatability ad the nicest looking interface (by default), and everyone in the linux comunity would need to send everyone to this newb disrto when they are starting out.

[color=66ff00]Knoppix. :)
[/color]

 

Offline dizzy

  • 26
    • http://dizzy.roedu.net
Huh, hard to understand you people :)

I have been using ONLY Linux (that is, I do have a Windows flavour arround because my gf needs to do some work on it or because I need to try some Win32 only stuff but 99% of the time I work on a computer happens on Linux) for the last 5 years now and can't complain about anything. Actually I can't stand working on Windows for more than a couple of minutes (out of a game that is) because of the interface limitations, strange responsiveness to my actions (random response times) and often crashes (yes, don't know why, could be just my hardware but even with XP I still get crashes on Windows).

I program on Linux (C/C++), IRC, Web, listen to music, watch movies, reencode movies/music when needed, download stuff, play games (yeah, fs2_open on Linux/AMD64 rules :)), write CD/DVDs and upload the Plextor DVD writer hardware on updates, etc.. Very rarely I step on needs not possible to be done on my Linux system (like the motherboard flash updating utility, now that I think of it, can't say I searched for how to do this on Linux tho).

Since I started to "play" with Linux (about 9 years ago at school) I am more of more of an oppinion that (for someone as me, a developer more than a user of computers) Linux and the whole Open Source Community is an powerful catalizer for the IT knowledge. While with the current distros this might not be still true but before you had to learn a lot of stuff to get to a point where you could use them on an acceptable level. This learning proved extremely important for me as it opened my eyes to things I never imagined that exist out there (in the IT universe), concepts and ideas from various IT fields, terms and knowledge.

Just take for example that for the last 4 years I focused on network programming by working on mostly network programming open source projects, then to some gaming network programming (the gaming server part), and now more and more into the actual client game programming (including the math, 3d terms and concepts) with fs2_open. Open source allows me to move from one field to another with just my time/ambition and IQ as the limits :) I used to work (as a job) in networking operations for many years, now I moved to programming, in the future probably I will move to operations back (but on a different level). For me Linux and open source is more than a operating system kernel and a licensing model, it is pure freedom, freedom to learn which is my favourite thing to in life (ok, besides sex :)).

It is this all variaty that makes is so cool, many distributions, many window managers, many audio players, etc. I can understand that for someone that comes from a "do it one way" world this can seem very confusing. I have one advise for them: just chose a popular distribution (that is, one that you have heard of, that is a very good principle to find out about which distribution is popular :)). After getting used to it (modern popular distributions should be pretty easy even for new Linux users) you will find it fun that you can have all those different window managers and in time you will come to appriciate that by just chosing one over another. After a while try another popular distribution, it will be fun to have a lot of stuff different now (well at least, I get bored very easy about the same thing all over again, I like to change in time stuff, to make life fun).

 

Offline Bobboau

  • Just a MODern kinda guy
    Just MODerately cool
    And MODest too
  • 213
well all I'm saying is, you know more about the system, you and the rest of your comunity, I'm thinking the OS comunity at large (and the linux comunity in particular) would benifit if it was a little more accessable, if you just had a basic package so to speak, if you want to know of the distros I know of they would be red hat, mandrake, gentoo, and lindows, there are a few others but off of my head these are the ones I would think of. of those I don't exactly have a full house of easy to get started with distros.

I know from reference that linux is technicaly superior to windows, I would like to try it, I know the linux comunity wishes they could get more people (or at least that windows had less) and I'm telling you, as someone who works on an open source project, the way to get this done is to have a basic setup that will alow people to get a taste of it with minimal effort, once they have something to play with they'll stick around with it and start trying out the options.
Bobboau, bringing you products that work... in theory
learn to use PCS
creator of the ProXimus Procedural Texture and Effect Generator
My latest build of PCS2, get it while it's hot!
PCS 2.0.3


DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Kamikaze

  • A Complacent Wind
  • 29
    • http://www.nodewar.com
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
the way to get this done is to have a basic setup that will alow people to get a taste of it with minimal effort, once they have something to play with they'll stick around with it and start trying out the options.


Yeah, and it's called a livecd/dvd. :p

A livecd/dvd is an OS on a CD. You boot from the disc and you have a full, working Linux environment with no hassle. Oftentimes you can install directly from the livedisc.

Knoppix
SuSE LiveDVD
« Last Edit: September 14, 2005, 06:35:22 pm by 179 »
Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceding generation . . .Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. - Richard Feynman

 

Offline Kazan

  • PCS2 Wizard
  • 212
  • Soul lives in the Mountains
    • http://alliance.sourceforge.net
yes.. four years ago woot.. or three revisions of a distro ago.. w00t again

I can have a machine from parts to having a fully functioning linux install on it in 1 hour tops using Fedora Core 4 - and FC's installer is MUCH MUCH MUCH nicer than any installer microsoft has ever dreamed of.  15 minute install - load up drop to a root console "yum update" and blammo you're done.

If you want to be fancy you configure your machine for the http://www.fedorafaq.org/ yum repositories :D


my dev box at work is a great example
PCS2 2.0.3 | POF CS2 wiki page | Important PCS2 Threads | PCS2 Mantis

"The Mountains are calling, and I must go" - John Muir

 

Offline mikhael

  • Back to skool
  • 211
  • Fnord!
    • http://www.google.com/search?q=404error.com
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Fury
But with linux you're lucky if software developers have even pre-compiled binaries available for your distro.


Precompiled binaries make me feel all dirty. Compile from source for the win.

If at all possible, I avoid binaries entirely. FreeBSD gets installed via CD or FTP, then I build some basic utilities from source, grab the /src tree and do a complete rebuild of the kernel, core and userland.
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

 

Offline WMCoolmon

  • Purveyor of space crack
  • 213
I'm still impressed with my NX working on Kubuntu.

If not for Kaffeine krashing and .mov files not having any sound and the DVD codecs not installing nor the Win32 ones...

*wuv*
-C

 

Offline Kazan

  • PCS2 Wizard
  • 212
  • Soul lives in the Mountains
    • http://alliance.sourceforge.net
fedorafaq repositories for Fedora Core are excellent for the ATI and nVidia proprietary drivers - fedorafaq repackages them in a manner that makes them easy to get updates via yum
PCS2 2.0.3 | POF CS2 wiki page | Important PCS2 Threads | PCS2 Mantis

"The Mountains are calling, and I must go" - John Muir

 

Offline Darkage

  • CRAZY RENDER RABBIT
  • 211
At the moment is use Unix OS from Sun Microsystems, Solaris 9 CDE on my Sparc system and Solaris 10 x86 on my PC both work very good for me no install trouble at all. And so far i like it, and we use Solaris allot at work to test HDD's, System Boards etc with. And to pre-install custom orderd systems.
I use the Sparc Ultra5 station for doing my private/work administration on. And the Windows for Games and Solaris 10 just for fun to fiddle around with the new options/tools it has.

Solaris 10 will have Linux support in it in later versions but so far they havent yet impleted it. But it does seem promissing, although support for linux might be doggy at the start.
[email protected]
Returned from the dead.

 

Offline mikhael

  • Back to skool
  • 211
  • Fnord!
    • http://www.google.com/search?q=404error.com
It shouldn't be, Darkage. Solaris (for all its faults) borrows heavily from the BSD world. BSD has had a rather strong Linux compatibility layer forever.
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

  

Offline Zarax

  • 210
Actually, Jobbs solved pretty much the problem

BSD + nice GUI and ease to use = newbie *nix

Downsides: You have to pay for every update of a certain size and you're subject to Jobb's whims ;)
The Best is Yet to Come

 
No such thing as a free lunch (unless you're a BOFH exploiting a salesdroid).

If you want an easy-to-use OS that just works [most of the time], choose Mac or Windows.

If you want an OS that does exactly what you tell it to, without relying on the good graces of whoever runs it, choose Linux.

Simple as that.
'And anyway, I agree - no sig images means more post, less pictures. It's annoying to sit through 40 different sigs telling about how cool, deadly, or assassin like a person is.' --Unknown Target

"You know what they say about the simplest solution."
"Bill Gates avoids it at every possible opportunity?"
-- Nuke and Colonol Drekker

 

Offline mikhael

  • Back to skool
  • 211
  • Fnord!
    • http://www.google.com/search?q=404error.com
OSX is not BSD. Its a Mach microkernel wrapped in a BSD-ish userland.

Please don't put OSX into our camp, Zarax, thanks.
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

 

Offline Zarax

  • 210
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
OSX is not BSD. Its a Mach microkernel wrapped in a BSD-ish userland.

Please don't put OSX into our camp, Zarax, thanks.


He named an impure OS! Take him to the stake! :D

Whatever you call it, doesn't change what it is.

I happen to like the old good BSD, which is a solid, stable system with almost 30 years of work behind it and without some horrifing things I've seen in many linux distros, like backporting (you should know what backporting is)... BSD was THE open source before linus played with his own creation, only with a more relaxed licensing system...

Anyways, to get back on topic, the linux community is facing an interesting dilemma: it has to face some degree of standardization and process automation before it will be able to be opened to the newbies (are you sure it's a good thing for you?), but on the other side that means sacrificing loads of community pride... Which uber exclusive feature will be left out?
I can hear the hordes of fanboys (btw, please avoid using my nickname near that word, I don't remember myself accusing anyone of zealotry here plus I've always supported my opinions with logical backing) bringing the torches because their little tool being left over...

Anyways, IMHO you will have to wait for:
 
a) some of the major communities joining forces

b) linus and other major gurus encouraging that

or

c) something to invest a lot of cash and human resources into such a project (atually Chronos, err... IBM is doing it but not for the benefit of the community), but since Santa isnt going to open a software house I fear that the ones investing on such a thing will dare to charge for it, thus becoming a community competitor instead of collaborating with it...

BTW, it's linux that is compatible with BSD (AKA UNIX) and not the contrary. ;)
The Best is Yet to Come

 

Offline Martinus

  • Aka Maeglamor
  • 210
    • Hard Light Productions
[color=66ff00]Where there to be a simplification of linux it wouldn't have to be all or nothing.

You could simply have stepping stones, beginner distro, intermediate distro, advanced distro...

I still think that the very freedom that linux permits is intrinsically linked to the knowledge required to use it though. Anything else would be a dumbing down and would do so at the expense of the user.
[/color]

 

Offline mikhael

  • Back to skool
  • 211
  • Fnord!
    • http://www.google.com/search?q=404error.com
Quote
Originally posted by Zarax


He named an impure OS! Take him to the stake! :D

Whatever you call it, doesn't change what it is.

Exactly: its not a BSD, BSD variant, or whatever. If having a BSD userland is all it takes for being a BSD variant, every Windows with sockets support and/or a full TCPIP stack is a BSD variant.

There's more to it than employing the userland. There's a structure, a philosophy of design, etc.
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]