[karajorma]

Too late at night for me Notice that both of mine were typos cause I didn't misspell them the same way

[IceFire]

From Grade 4 to Grade 9 I was forced to take French class.  While knowing the second official language of this country would be a handy and useful thing to have...it was unfortunately poorly executed.

1) No focus on using the language or learning how to communicate, all focus was on grammar
2) Grammar to the exclusion of all else...I can't remember how many freaking verb tests I took.  For years I didn't have a clue how to speak french or put together a sentence or ask for anything...all I was to do was learn verbs.
3) The teachers I ran across had no real interest or passion in passing along the language.  They already knew it, obviously could speak it, but nobody else could so what was the bloody point. And then they wondered why I couldn't put together a sentence after months and months of verb tests...who cares if I get the tenses wrong for a while...lets get the fundamentals of the language in how to speak and communicate ideas and concepts first.

For me, vocabulary and speaking should have been taught.

The other problem of course is that the fundamental flaw is written French is taught...and the type of French that is used in Quebec and elsewhere in Canada is different and difficult to understand.  I think I would understand someone in Paris France speaking to me better than someone in Quebec City.

Ironic.

Not surprising that there were problems...

[Nuclear1]

I honestly see learning languages as pretty important, but I might be somewhat biased, as my upcoming career as a USAF translator might just require knowing a foreign language maybe.

I'm currently taking French and German.

[pyro-manic]

A (possibly) interesting perspective from me (hello peeps, by the way ) - I am a product of the Welsh school system, which is basically the English system, but they force Welsh on you as well as French and/or German. Now, Welsh has been somewhat overlooked in recent centuries (what with the Normans kicking the crap out of the last Welsh kings about a thousand years ago), but there's been a fairly large revival as of late (about the past 50 years or so), and it's now taught quite aggressively in schools. It's taught pretty scrappily in primary school, but then it gets stepped up a gear when you go to secondary school (at age 11, in case you foreigners didn't know). However, at the same time you have French and German sprung on you as well, so you're then having to struggle through three languages as well as English, one of which has very strange sounds and mutations in it. Self-important and arrogant teachers ruined Welsh and French for me, though my German teacher was great, and I subsequently took it at GCSE level.

I think the problem was that languages were almost entirely neglected up until secondary school, when we were suddenly forced to study three new ones, while dealing with all that messy puberty stuff as well. If we'd been started much earlier (say in the first year or two of school, at age four or five), we'd have enjoyed it, and it would have been easier as well. So by the time everyone got to the age where they could actually choose what they studied, languages wouldn't be seen as something foriegn.

Myself, I took German at GCSE level, enjoyed it and got an A (mostly due to good teachers on both counts), but I've hardly spoken a word of it since. I'd love to get back into languages (German or French, plus Cantonese or Japanese or some other Eastern language), but the whole university thing has now kicked in, so time is at a premium, as is brain capacity. Maybe when I graduate....

[Rictor]

Originally posted by IceFire
From Grade 4 to Grade 9 I was forced to take French class.  While knowing the second official language of this country would be a handy and useful thing to have...it was unfortunately poorly executed.

1) No focus on using the language or learning how to communicate, all focus was on grammar
2) Grammar to the exclusion of all else...I can't remember how many freaking verb tests I took.  For years I didn't have a clue how to speak french or put together a sentence or ask for anything...all I was to do was learn verbs.
3) The teachers I ran across had no real interest or passion in passing along the language.  They already knew it, obviously could speak it, but nobody else could so what was the bloody point. And then they wondered why I couldn't put together a sentence after months and months of verb tests...who cares if I get the tenses wrong for a while...lets get the fundamentals of the language in how to speak and communicate ideas and concepts first.

For me, vocabulary and speaking should have been taught.

The other problem of course is that the fundamental flaw is written French is taught...and the type of French that is used in Quebec and elsewhere in Canada is different and difficult to understand.  I think I would understand someone in Paris France speaking to me better than someone in Quebec City.

Ironic.

Not surprising that there were problems...

Same. But now that I think about it, I suspect that maybe French is taught badly on purpose. I guess the powers that be figure that with any luck most of Canada will learn to forever hate French and in a few decades Quebecois culture, including language, will be a thing of the past.

However, I think that kids in elementary school and high school don't understand the importance of languages and have no interest in learning something so seemingly abstract. A better curricullum and better teachers would certainly help, though it also depends on whether the student is an upper-class yuppie with a place at the London School of Economics waiting for him, or whether he plans to work as a plumber.

Originally posted by pyro-manic
A (possibly) interesting perspective from me (hello peeps, by the way ) - I am a product of the Welsh school system, which is basically the English system, but they force Welsh on you as well as French and/or German.  

Look on the upside. Knowing Welsh is like knowing some secret code language: no one can understand you, so you're free to say what you want (provided there are other Welsh people around to listen). So if you ever get arrested by the CIA and interrogated, you can just start talking Welsh and they'll have a hell of time finding an interpreter.

That's my thinking anyway. If I was to learn a language, it would something like Armenian or a local dialect from some tiny Pacific Island with a popultion of 2500. You know, so they can't keep tabs on you.

[Gortef]

Of course learning languages is important. Sure it is true that in most cases english or bad english is sufficient, but it surely doesn't hurt if you can have a conversations with other languages as well. Also, there still are people from older generations alive who can't speak english because on their time the quality of education was not so high.

[Carl]

everyone should just speak how i do, then i won't have to do anything.

[Martinus]

[color=66ff00]But when you talk you sound like a cross between a broken radio and a bad tempered washing machine.

We can only understand you because Goob programmed the ETAK v.3.2
[/color]

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]But when you talk you sound like a cross between a broken radio and a bad tempered washing machine.

We can only understand you because Goob programmed the ETAK v.3.2
[/color]

Ah, that explains who nicked my car battery.

[karajorma]

Pyro makes a good point. Teaching languages at a much younger ages is actually much more sensible. Below the age of 8 or 9 a child can learn a language simply by overhearing it.

Why deliberately wait until that has disappeared to start?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by karajorma
Pyro makes a good point. Teaching languages at a much younger ages is actually much more sensible. Below the age of 8 or 9 a child can learn a language simply by overhearing it.

Why deliberately wait until that has disappeared to start?

What they should do is teach chat up lines then pack kids off to, say, the French riviera for a week.  That'd get some enthusiasm back into them.

[Martinus]

Originally posted by aldo_14


Ah, that explains who nicked my car battery.

[color=66ff00]You owned that old banger parked in the landing bay disabled spot?
[/color]

[aldo_14]

Noo, I owned the old banger parked on top of the old banger in the disabled spot.

Nasty prang, that.

[Martinus]

[color=66ff00]I think you crushed Styxx's car...


On a more serious note, we were given the choice of French or Gaelic in school. I find Gaelic to be an outdated and pretty useless language in all respects except cultural (it's not even asthetically pleasing to the ear unlike French). I got a D in GCSE French, more due to lack of interest at the time and our school was mixed so as someone pointed out you didn't want to look like a tit in front of all the girls.

In retrospect I think French is both a useful and pleasing language and I would have liked to have learned it, the whole masculine/feminine thing threw me a little though. German would also be a useful language IMHO, interesting sounding but hard to read from the basic level stuff I've seen.

Is it true that they're talking about 'dumbing down' the German language? Heard that last week and it seemed a bit strange.
[/color]

[kode]

that's a process that's been going on for ten years or so. basically they're simplifying it.

[Col. Fishguts]

No, I guess you heard something about the spelling reform that was introduced in the 90's and has now become officialy this August.

It's mainly orthographical changes in an attempt to make the language more consistent (some "ph"s replaced by "f"s and stuff like that).

Plus some grammar changes concerning commas, etc.

But the reform is not exactly very popular, because some words now just "look" wrong, and people like me who had to learn both the old and the new system are uttely confused what's correct these days.