[TopAce]

Teenage boys can barely be encouraged to speak English let alone learn another language, says the Chief Inspector of Schools, David Bell.

The voice of language learning in England's schools is in danger of becoming almost entirely middle class and female, he said.

Mr Bell said it might be better to teach the subject in single-sex classes to make boys less self-conscious.

Language learning was also often weaker in schools in deprived areas, he said.

Speaking at the publication of Ofsted's annual report, Mr Bell pointed to the risk of modern language learning becoming a ghetto for girls in leafy suburbs.

"Teenage thing"

"There's a danger that it becomes a middle class girls' subject," said Mr Bell.

"We know that girls are doing modern languages more than boys and that schools serving deprived areas are not providing as many opportunities for modern foreign languages.

"But why might boys not be doing it? Does it come back to confidence? Or is it that 'teenage thing' of boys not being prepared to speak English, let alone French or German," he said.

"It should cause us some concern, because we want more people to learn a modern language."

Mr Bell said secondary schools were already experimenting with single-sex classes for science lessons - and that it would be "absolutely reasonable" if schools adopted a similar approach to teaching modern languages.

"It would be daft to take an ideological stance," over single-sex teaching groups, he said, if that approach worked for modern languages.

Sharp decline

Modern languages have faced a period of decline in secondary schools - with a 14% fall in pupils taking French GCSEs this year. A study from the QCA exams watchdog has warned about weaknesses in the subject.

A longer-term consequence of this has been pressure on university language departments - as they have had to draw from a shrinking pool of potential applicants.

Higher education funding authorities have warned of the possible need for mergers, as a number of university language departments now have fewer than a dozen undergraduates.

The image of modern languages as being the preserve of better-off students was reinforced by figures from the Independent Schools Council last year which showed that 60% of all A-level grade As in French were achieved by pupils in independent schools.

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Source:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/4357314.stm

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My opinion: I understand that English-speaking countries do not find importance in learning a language that is less used than their own mother-tongue, but this is something I would consider an exergation. I find this disturbing. What do you think?

[Grey Wolf]

Learning a foreign language is fairly important, not just for the direct benefits. It actually improves your skill in your mother tongue.

[aldo_14]

Absolutely true; I had absolutely no interest (nor put any effort) into the compulsary French (or German) language courses at school.  

It's something I regret now, of course, although even in that context I'd rather have learnt perhaps Spanish or Italian.  Because the rest of the EU (and I guess probably the world) is so good at teaching their citizens english, it's very easy to get blase about the whole thing.  Especially at an age when, frankly, the vast majority don't have a clue about the world around them.

In terms of English language teaching, it's really because the curriculum is boring and irrelevant.  There's no attempt to make it modern or interesting.

[TopAce]

Originally posted by Grey Wolf
Learning a foreign language is fairly important, not just for the direct benefits. It actually improves your skill in your mother tongue.

Care to explain this? It has not helped me greatly in my own mothertongue, except for understanding some more formal terms which derive from latin.

[Janos]

Die Kühe werden herüber gebracht.

That's about the only thing I remember from my, what, 9½ years of studying German is school. And of course I understand Rammstein's lyrics (and that's exactly why I don't take them too seriously anymore, Megaherz is far better).

[Fineus]

I entirely agree with aldo on this point. As a recent product of the English scholastic system myself - I don't think nearly enough emphasis was placed upon learning new languages. It seems strange now that learning the likes of classical English, history or even some geography was ranked as more important than learning some of the other core languages of the planet.

Before anyone flames me for saying that - let me explain. While I'm sure that the Battle of Hastings or the formation of an Ox-bow lake are interesting and even important pieces of information in thier place...they leave the vast majority of us (that is - young people) with nothing useful in the lasting sense of the word. The ability to speak Japanese, Spanish, German or French... these are the languages we might need to deal with business on an international level.

Some might argue that that isn't important if you want to grow up to be someone who repairs car exhausts for your local town... and fair enough. But to me - school is something that should give you a good foundation to do whatever you want to. Not knowing how to communicate is a real setback and it's something that a lot of other countries try to address... that's why they teach their students English.

The other issue of course, is that a lot of English children can't speak English. I'm not talking about a few spelling mistakes here or there. I'm saying that a lot of kids simply lack the facility to speak and write their primary language properly. To me.. that's a failing education.

Eugh... I can't help but feel I'm starting to sound like the Daily Mail. However it's plain to see that there's trouble brewing for England as a whole, and that not enough is being done about it. Between compensation culture, pandering to the lowest common denominator, praise for stupidity and the apparent rise in crime / failing transport and health services.... well, things just aren't right.

[Descenterace]

And that is why the human race is doomed.

Thankfully, this topic shows that at least a few people realise there's something wrong with the direction the world is going in.

[CP5670]

I'm in the US so maybe the situation is different here, but I really can't see what's the big deal here. If you live in a primarily English speaking country, there aren't too many occupations where you would need to know anything else. As far as private sector jobs go, English has after all become the language of global industry, commerce and scientific research these days. It seems to me that this is just making a big deal over a peripheral issue while the real problems with schools in Western countries these days are with the standards of math and science education and to lesser extent that of English itself.

I hated the foreign language requirements in high school and still have no interest in them at all. And my English is very good. I can understand Marathi (offshoot of Hindi, used in parts of western India) decently because my that's my parents' native language, but am incapable of speaking more than a word or two.

Unfortunately, almost all graduate schools require you to learn some foreign language in order to get a math Ph.D. (?!), although it seems that the new dedicated applied math programs coming up don't have this stupid requirement.

In terms of English language teaching, it's really because the curriculum is boring and irrelevant.

No kidding, especially the reading lists they had. Some of the worst stuff I ever read was in high school English classes, or so I thought. I am currently taking an English literature course to satisfy a dumb college requirement and the things I have been reading there have been arguably worse.

[Roanoke]

I like the idea but speaking French or whatever won't get my car through it's MOT....

[WMCoolmon]

I learned Latin in HS and it was a great experience, although I had a really good teacher.

I crashed & burned when we started reading poetry, but it's still been useful in understanding how English works, and grasping a number of other languages' syntax.

Mostly though it'll probably enormously improve my rate of learning once I go to read another language. I haven't practiced much so I've started to forget vocab.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by CP5670
I'm in the US so maybe the situation is different here, but I really can't see what's the big deal here. If you live in a primarily English speaking country, there aren't too many occupations where you would need to know anything else. As far as private sector jobs go, English has after all become the language of global industry, commerce and scientific research these days. It seems to me that this is just making a big deal over a peripheral issue while the real problems with schools in Western countries these days are with the standards of math and science education and to lesser extent that of English itself.

Well, the Us isn't as involved in foreign speaking countries as the UK is, what with the EU and all.

(ignoring that the most spoken language in the Us will be spanish in about 10-20 years time IIRC)

So we've got 2 factors playing in, really; business with the French, Germans, Spanish, etc.  And then tourism, because we have a lot more foreign speaking places to go to, and they're a lot cheaper than the nearest English speaking places (except Ireland of course).

We don't need to know, in any case - but it's pretty bloody helpful.  I really should get off my fat arse and find a nightclass or something somewhere.

[Flipside]

I saw a bulletin on the News about this tonight, apparently part of the problem is that the schools which are achieving the highest results are using things called 'GNVQ' which is General National Vocational Qualifications. I've been involved in teaching these, they are evidence based qualifications in IT, Hairdressing, Horticulture etc. They are also worth, according to our governments' statistics system, 4 GCSE's.

GNVQ's are handy qualifications to have, I'll admit, and it's good to see some education centering on employment, however, I personally don't think that something which can be taught to a trainee in under 8 months, semi part-time, can equal four qualifications that take 2 years to study for.

Another interesting fact is that, whilst the number of GCSE's being achieved are going up, for the above reason, our results in GCSE English and Maths are down at less than 20% for A-C. There is opinion that this is because students know that they can let these subjects slip and pick up the slack with the GNVQ.

[TopAce]

Thank you for all the replies. As far as I read the replies, I noticed that those who voted for the first option sure did not post.

Originally posted by WMCoolmon
I learned Latin in HS and it was a great experience, although I had a really good teacher.

I started learning Latin in September, which will be needed for me to complete the Italian courses (!). I find it very instructive, too. But I find more link between Italian and Latin and between English and Latin. What surprises me in Latin - English is that more formal and literary expressions keep some Latin words. Credibiliy is what comes to mind now. You would never use this word in everyday speech, but in schools and business life.

Originally posted by Descenterace
...at least a few people realise there's something wrong with the direction the world is going in.

You needn't be a peculiar observer to notice this. But I don't think that languages would be a factor in the deterioration of the Earth.

[kode]

swedish, english, german. all mandatory. it didn't hurt me. the language learning that is. well, maybe the german did.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by TopAce
You needn't be a peculiar observer to notice this. But I don't think that languages would be a factor in the deterioration of the Earth.

Well, being able to understand each other isn't a bad thing, though.  I think a lot of intolerance is down to an inability to communicate.  That's not solely down to language, of course - society and culture plays a role.  But I think it's still important.

[vyper]

I despised Standard Grade French. Then again I also despised my sexist, feministo teacher Madame Guy.

[Shrike]

My French language background (if sadly eroded due to disuse) came in handy in Brazil.  Not because they speak French but because Portugese is quite similar to French in many ways and so I really needed to learn vocabulary as opposed to an entirely new language.  That said it was pretty damn hard to even get the gist of what people were saying, but reading written Portugese became at least somewhat possible by the end of my stay.  (It helped and hindered that I had someone translating)

[karajorma]

Quite frankly I'm a little surprised by that. French is the most different of all the romantic languages from portugese. Had you learned italian or spanish I wouldn't be surprised as all three are fairly similar.

That said I do agree. I speak small amounts of all of them (except italian) and not only does it help me in situations like that but I find that I can often understand new words in english because I recognise the root from portuguse or french

[Corsair]

I think that learning other languages is extremely important, especially in our global society. I take Spanish in school and though I'm not fluent, I'm pretty competent and can get around using it. What I really want to learn is Hebrew and Arabic... I know a little bit of each but I definitely want to learn more.

[Ghostavo]

I'll never understand a language with a very odd number system (96 = 4x20+16 for example)... seriously!

*is disturbed that in 4 attempts portuguese is spelled wrong*