[headdie]

Aesaar, if this was a model for general use, then I could see where you are coming from.  But this is for a mod which has already been a long time coming and I would not be surprised if the guys are getting to the point of enough is enough, so if the guys want to "cheat" and use tile mapping let them.  if it bothers people enough I am sure post release if asked nicely something can be put into place so those with the issues and the skills can make a replacement.

otherwise comment on the fact that the tile mapping looks off and move on

[Nyctaeus]

Great model ruined by poorly done tilemapping.

Thanks your constructive criticism. I'm pretty sure smoothing every sharp edge in Bastion would make it prettier.

Okay, let's stop this trolling. Quality of the textures actualy are not depending on my mapping skills, as I can do both UV and tile. The problem is in lack of dedicated texture artist, as FSK disappeared long time ago. At least I'm trying to use tiles in similar way as Oddgrim used them in Asteria, not to slapping random tiles everywhere [just like most of the tilemapped ships are done], but using specified parts of the tiles to texture individual details. I think it works fine in our current situation, when we facing lack of texture artist. At least nobody complained about mapping of the Ishtar.
Color scheme is the same as in original Bastion by Psycho. I'd like to change all purple and cyan parts to light blue, but that decision is actualy depending on project leaders.

As for the Diablo, it's actualy not tilemapped. It uses two dedicated textures baked from the tiles. I doubt if any member of the Inferno Team has enough texturing skills to do make better textures right now. We are always open for help from the outside if someone volunteers .

[BrotherBryon]

It isn't so much that we are lazy as it is that we have to tile map just to get things done for now. We can always go back and release fully textured models later but since we are already well past our initial planned release date and some of us have had real life get in the way of how much we can do at the moment it makes sense to do it this way as any other would push release back another 6 months to a year at minimum. Hell it's taken over a year just to get the major bottle neck assets this far and right now they are the only thing preventing the finishing up and releasing of the first part of the campaign.

[Woomeister]

Even doing a basic baking of the tilemaps onto a UV texture would delay us 6-12 months because we have nobody with the time to do it. If you want us to do proper textures for everything? Well with FSKing gone we have nobody to do that either so add 12-24 months to do that to a decent standard. We've had some models sitting for months untextured cause nobody was available to do the tilemapping for them.

Don't call us lazy when you're not willing to help cause it's pretty damn rude.

The Terrans have 11 tilemapped models
The EA have 19 tilemapped models
The Vasudans have 2 tilemapped models (3 if we get the Selket completed in time)
The Shivans have 3 tilemapped models (4 if we get the Gania completed in time)

So that's 35 models that would have to be UV Mapped, textured to a high standard, then reconverted and tested again.
That's only for the first release, if we hadn't done the split to try and keep a decent release schedule, then we'd be adding a bunch of Vasudan fleet ships, the Gigas and Icanus and a few other things being held back for now.

[MatthTheGeek]

The choice of making so many ships when you knew you weren't gonna be able to texture them was the wrong one to begin with and you know it.

Quantity never beats quality.

[Woomeister]

Most of these models were made/planned when tilemapping was the norm, and they are textured just not the way you want them to be now. We can delay the entire mod until we retexture everything if you like but that will add years to the release date unless a load of those complaining about it that can texture actually help, which they won't.
If we cut the tilemapped ships we'd have no EA fleet so continuing the mod would be pointless then.

[headdie]

The choice of making so many ships when you knew you weren't gonna be able to texture them was the wrong one to begin with and you know it.

Quantity never beats quality.

thing is with inferno is that the ship decisions were made years ago with the original releases.  and are you seriously going to tell me that you would be happy if they missed out a bunch of ships just because they didnt have time?

Seriously guys we are not dealing with a company producing a triple AAA multi million pound game stop treating this fan project and while we are at it, this community as such.  over the last few months I have seen more *****ing in HLP about x,y and z not being uber high quality than I think I can stand. 

Back off and let the team finish the project, a project which has already been a long time in the making an I know a good chunk of this community is highly anticipating, end of the day you get what you get and if you dont like it then tough, you should either be offering to help now or offering to help when its done, stop acting like spoiled brats for **** sake

[Nyctaeus]

And of course...

Say hello to SC Daeva. The upper one is current version, and it uses tile textures. The second one is old version - UVed. I remapped her, because she looked like crap and that's how the ship look like where someone who is not good at making textures is trying to do that. Sometimes tilemapping is the only way to get the ship look enough good.

BTW. This is not Inferno related material.

[MatthTheGeek]

thing is with inferno is that the ship decisions were made years ago with the original releases.  and are you seriously going to tell me that you would be happy if they missed out a bunch of ships just because they didnt have time?

Thing is, most of the INFR1 ships actually look just as well or even better than the tileraped "htl" versions we have now because all the additional detail is lost in noise. So yes, the sensible decision would have been to keep the INFR1 versions for most ships, and make high-quality versions of a couple of centerpiece ships so they actually look like they're upgraded.

[BrotherBryon]

The problem with that argument is that most of the ships in question have some redesign in the htl versions that will effect mission balancing and overall armament. Case in point is the new Sol gate where the new model is drastically different from the original. As it stands now a texture upgrade later won't break the missions as it would if we decided to replace the entire model later. Besides any one saying the Old Diablo model from INFR1 looks better than the "tileraped" new one is clearly blind.

[Lorric]

The choice of making so many ships when you knew you weren't gonna be able to texture them was the wrong one to begin with and you know it.

Quantity never beats quality.

thing is with inferno is that the ship decisions were made years ago with the original releases.  and are you seriously going to tell me that you would be happy if they missed out a bunch of ships just because they didnt have time?

Seriously guys we are not dealing with a company producing a triple AAA multi million pound game stop treating this fan project and while we are at it, this community as such.  over the last few months I have seen more *****ing in HLP about x,y and z not being uber high quality than I think I can stand. 

Back off and let the team finish the project, a project which has already been a long time in the making an I know a good chunk of this community is highly anticipating, end of the day you get what you get and if you dont like it then tough, you should either be offering to help now or offering to help when its done, stop acting like spoiled brats for **** sake

Makes me wonder why anybody even bothers at times.

[Woomeister]

So yes, the sensible decision would have been to keep the INFR1 versions for most ships, and make high-quality versions of a couple of centerpiece ships so they actually look like they're upgraded.

Then we'd get complaints that those models are horribly smoothed and should of been scrapped years ago.

[The Dagger]

This is a project that has been in the works for too long, so for the moment I believe it is best for us to work towards a first release. We can always improve the visuals later. I do agree that tilemapping is a bad practice in general, but for now it looks like the fastest way to keep things going.

If I had more time I'd texture all those ships, but I don't . As already implied, I've baked the tiles from the Diablo into a UV to add an AO bake. The time-consuming part is to actually cramp all parts into a map with enough resolution con keep the tile details and remaking all LODs. Though not perfect, it does help a bit bring up the detail.

And Woo, if I finish the Selket in time for release, I'll texture it.

[Woomeister]

And Woo, if I finish the Selket in time for release, I'll texture it.

Feel free to do so

[An4ximandros]

I hate to be that guy, but I almost complained about Ishtar... Something about the textures feeling off, though not bad. But I knew It was not gonna be a useful post, so I refrained from posting...

That said. I do believe many folks here need to get on the facts train: Not everyone is good at Texturing from scratch. And I believe that rather than [Insert Vasudan euphemism for 'b****ing'] about it, the complainers should be given a high detail model and be ordered to texture them from nothing, so they'd understand how difficult it can be.

And remember: Inferno was never a campaign with new ships. It was a ship pack with a campaign. Saying it needs less ships is like saying space needs less stars.

[Woomeister]

Well we already made cuts to the ship list since 2011. No supercarriers, no heavy Vasudan destroyer, a bunch of older fighters were removed and not replaced.
Some other stuff is being held back till the next release and so is on hold such as the Gigas. Models like the Selket and Gania will be in the 2nd release if they aren't completed in time for the 1st. The Arcas and Arcadia extensions won't be done till the 2nd release but are used in the 1st.

We do plan on improving what we can and patching the first release with upgraded models in the future. That shouldn't be too difficult.

[MatthTheGeek]

And I believe that rather than [Insert Vasudan euphemism for 'b****ing'] about it, the complainers should be given a high detail model and be ordered to texture them from nothing, so they'd understand how difficult it can be.

Aesaar's done all of that and then some, I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about more than you do.

[Jellyfish]

This [SC Daeva] is not Inferno related material.

Where will we see that bad boy in action, then?

[NGTM-1R]

And remember: Inferno was never a campaign with new ships. It was a ship pack with a campaign. Saying it needs less ships is like saying space needs less stars.

Fractal wrongness in action. If you attach the campaign anywhere and the ships are getting the way, this is a no. Only if you completely jettison the requirement for campaign does this become a valid statement.

[QuakeIV]

I'll just chip in and desperately beg the inferno modelling guys to not get burned out by all of this *****ing about 'low quality models' (to paraphrase) that very few people are capable of making out of the general population.