Author Topic: frickin exams  (Read 4656 times)

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Offline icespeed

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this is a random *****. i hate exams. i hate studying for them. i hate doing them. i hate the aftermath, where everyone stands around comparing answers and i've got *every single one of them* wrong. and i hate the very idea of exams. why is it, in a course supposedly doing problem-based learning, that we're doing exams? PBL is all about students going off and learning what they think they need to know. to be examined on something specific limits our freedom to study what's interesting, to studying what's on the syllabus. exams defeat the point of PBL. far out.

argh argh argh.

i have one more exam, btw. so i'm in the middle of the dread period. and what am i doing on hlp?
$quot;Let your light shine before men...$quot;
Matthew 5:16

When I graduate, I'm going to be a doctor, and people are going to come to me looking for treatment and prescription drugs, and I'm going to give it to them. Is anyone scared yet?

$quot;If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord', and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.$quot; Romans 10:9

 

Offline vyper

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Because we're too stupid to think of a better way of testing students.
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14

 

Offline Mefustae

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Because we're too stupid to think of a better way of testing students.
Here's a better way to test students: Put the group of students you want to test in a deep pit filled with Cobras. The ones that make it out alive graduate, the ones that don't... well, you get the idea...

 

Offline redsniper

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^^ that sounds just a little harsh.
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

Hard Light Productions:
"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."

 

Offline Martinus

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Here's a better way to test students: Put the group of students you want to test in a deep pit filled with Cobras. The ones that make it out alive graduate, the ones that don't... well, you get the idea...
The university of life?

 

Offline an0n

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All that would do would be to sort the morbidly selfish from the slow and weak.

And quit your *****ing.

It's about time someone forced some girls to take proper ****ing tests. All this 'equality in education' bull**** is why I failed college.

If it'd been all tests, I'd've sailed through. But because girls are ****ing balls at exams, half the goddamn grade percentage was coursework - which all men are genetically predispositioned to hate and avoid at all costs.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline Grey Wolf

If you want to really test them, give them an internship or coop. If they survive and don't get fired, they're ready for the workforce. If they fail, then they're in the wrong field.
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline Martinus

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Exams don't really seem to prove much in the working world other than your ability to absorb lots of information. Bearing in mind that the pass mark for uni exams here is 40% you can see that it's possible for someone to get a degree and know less than half the material on the day.

Coursework isn't too great either, you write pages and pages of what you think the lecturer wants to hear in a style the lecturer likes and it's usually all stuff that's taken from books and re-written.

Hands on experience as GW says is probably the single best way to assess a person's skills. Degrees with DIS (Diploma in Industrial Studies) i.e. work placement get far more kudos from employers than those that contain no work placement.


What makes you think that they tailored the assessments to suit women an0n? Some courses just don't work with examinations.

 

Offline Corsair

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Because that way he can blame stuff on somebody besides himself.

And I think all that Mefustae was suggesting was natural selection with a sadistic twist...
Wash: This landing's gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: *shrug* "Oh God, oh God, we're all gonna die"?
Mal: This is the captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then... explode.

 

Offline Kamikaze

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I disagree with the idea that exams are useless. A well designed exam can be valuable for so-called "problem solving" as much as anything else. The problem is the introduction of idiotic testing schemes like multiple choice tests.

For example, I have a top notch calculus teacher at my school. His class is very thorough and is likely more in-depth than the college courses offered at the local uni. The tests are very hard, and it's not because there's lots of stuff to memorize. It's because the problems genuinely stretch your understanding of the concepts of calculus and all the other math you've taken (e.g. tough min-max problems, limit proof using the delta-epsilon definition, etc.).

It's worth noting that my calculus teacher is also very reasonable, so for the first quarter of the class the minimum percentage for an A was 84%. The hard tests aren't for flunking students out, but for challenging the students with interesting problems.
Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceding generation . . .Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. - Richard Feynman

 

Offline Martinus

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Problem solving exams are not the norm though. Maths and logical problem solving skills are well served by test papers as they require the person to take what they know and to use it to solve a problem.

Most other exams simply ask the student to regurgitate facts.

 

Offline Kosh

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Quote
It's worth noting that my calculus teacher is also very reasonable, so for the first quarter of the class the minimum percentage for an A was 84%. The hard tests aren't for flunking students out, but for challenging the students with interesting problems.


When I was a student at my (former) university, I had to take physics (along with all the other engineering majors). Everyone hated it. It isn't much of a surprise that the average exam scroe for 211 (basic kinematics stuff) was around 50. The average for 213 (gaussian surfaces, amoung other weird ****) for around 20 or so. That was a year before I hate to take it.

When I had to take it they got in a new professor. The class average improved up to 70, but he still had this uber curve of 50% or better was passing.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

Brain I/O error
Replace and press any key

 

Offline CP5670

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My experience as a math major is that tests are simply a retarded idea in anything beyond the elementary classes, especially in graduate ones. If you get some experience with upper level classes, you will come to realize that you can safely ignore about 50% of the material you "learn" throughout the semester (and 80% of what is done in class) because there is no way for that stuff to be on a test. The problems on a test are of a particular kind, simplified versions of the homework problems, where the low difficulty is made up for by the time constraint and lack of reference materials.

The homework problems are typically much more complex and a far better indicator of how well you know the stuff, but are usually only a small fraction of the grade. A handful of professors give take home tests, but those are extremely rare. I had one last semester though. After the final exam is over, you can proceed to forget everything you learned during the semester since you never really studied it seriously in the first place, just well enough to know how to do tests on it. I know I don't remember much of what I did last year except the stuff in my specific area of interest. :D

You need a certain set of skills to do well on tests, one that is completely different from what is needed to solve real problems or do actual research in that field. The math professors in fact have a term for getting too used to this mode of thinking, the Putnam syndrome (from the Putnam competition exam), since there are so many students in math Ph.D. programs who have gotten that far because they could excel in tests but have no clue how to do any research.

In my abstract algebra class, the averages for the first two tests have been 59 and 65, with the medians a few percentage points off from that. 90 is by default an A in any class unless otherwise specified, although the professor said he might be doing "slight curving." Of course, I got 87 and 95 so I'm not too concerned, but I wouldn't want to be in the situation of most of the other students in the class. :p

There is a test in my intro Java class tomorrow. The average for the first test there was 67 and the professor said there might be a couple percentage points' curve, so the average grade would be around 70 (a low C). Of course, they tend to give a lot lower grades in intro classes in general, with only about 7-12% A's. I got a 90 on that one, which a borderline A. The tests together are worth about 50% of the grade in this class, so I better make sure I do well on this one.

One other feature of lower level classes is weekly quizzes. These appear in the Java class and make tests look like a great idea; as far as I can see, the only purpose of these is to irritate students and make them hate the class. :p These fortunately aren't generally seen in upper level things, but there is one guy in the math department who gives them for graduate classes (the stuff on him on www.ratemyprofessors.com is funny to read :D). Needless to say, I'm not about to do anything with him.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 12:49:19 am by CP5670 »

 

Offline FireCrack

  • 210
  • meh...
Quote
It's worth noting that my calculus teacher is also very reasonable, so for the first quarter of the class the minimum percentage for an A was 84%. The hard tests aren't for flunking students out, but for challenging the students with interesting problems.


When I was a student at my (former) university, I had to take physics (along with all the other engineering majors). Everyone hated it. It isn't much of a surprise that the average exam scroe for 211 (basic kinematics stuff) was around 50. The average for 213 (gaussian surfaces, amoung other weird ****) for around 20 or so. That was a year before I hate to take it.

When I had to take it they got in a new professor. The class average improved up to 70, but he still had this uber curve of 50% or better was passing.


Ugh... my physics prof is audacious, i got a test back today on wich he took 5 of 10 marks off becasue i frogot to convert from kph to m/s
actualy, mabye not.
"When ink and pen in hands of men Inscribe your form, bipedal P They draw an altar on which God has slaughtered all stability, no eyes could ever soak in all the places you anoint, and yet to see you all at once we only need the point. Flirting with infinity, your geometric progeny that fit inside you oh so tight with triangles that feel so right."
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 59230781640628620899862803482534211706...
"Your ever-constant homily says flaw is discipline, the patron saint of imperfection frees us from our sin. And if our transcendental lift shall find a final floor, then Man will know the death of God where wonder was before."

 

Offline an0n

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What makes you think that they tailored the assessments to suit women an0n?
The only reason they introduced coursework was because studies started showing that girls sucked at exams, and all the asshole politicians needed a way to make it look like kids were learning more under their administration.

It's also why pass requirements are horrifically low nowadays.

"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline aldo_14

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The only reason they introduced coursework was because studies started showing that girls sucked at exams, and all the asshole politicians needed a way to make it look like kids were learning more under their administration.

It's also why pass requirements are horrifically low nowadays.

If pass requirements are so horrifically low, then why did you fail college?

 

Offline an0n

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Because 40% of my grade was coursework.

Plus I had like 30% attendance for the last few months, and spent the rest of my time in the pub.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline aldo_14

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Because 40% of my grade was coursework.

Plus I had like 30% attendance for the last few months, and spent the rest of my time in the pub.

So, really, it's the pubs fault then.

 

Offline Grug

  • 211
  • From the ashes...
Just to be the salt in your wounds...

I've finished exams and am on holidays! ^_^ :p

(Good Luck! ;) :D )

 

Offline FireCrack

  • 210
  • meh...
Man, my exams dont even start for another few weeks...
actualy, mabye not.
"When ink and pen in hands of men Inscribe your form, bipedal P They draw an altar on which God has slaughtered all stability, no eyes could ever soak in all the places you anoint, and yet to see you all at once we only need the point. Flirting with infinity, your geometric progeny that fit inside you oh so tight with triangles that feel so right."
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 59230781640628620899862803482534211706...
"Your ever-constant homily says flaw is discipline, the patron saint of imperfection frees us from our sin. And if our transcendental lift shall find a final floor, then Man will know the death of God where wonder was before."