[Deepblue]

While there have been problems with 360s over-heating in poorly ventillated areas, it looks like the "massive" hardware problems are more hearsay than anything else.

http://www.1up.com/news/0001ab32/sony.php?3.asm

Sony Employees Caught in Act
November 23, 2005 (7:04 PM EST)

By Jeff Wagoner, CF Editor

Tokyo (AP)-
As cries of Xbox 360 defects in the United States have consumed the online world in the past 48 hours since the launch, it has been discovered that Sony is apparently the fuel to the fire. Known as "Project Light Flame" it has been revealed that third-party employees of a Sony subsidiary named Koyeo are actually being paid to insight negative views upon the newly released console. Why you ask? Because Sony themselves are gearing up for a launch of their new console, the Playstation 3. More news to come as soon as it's available...

It's never a good idea to spring for a first edition, nonetheless, first the rootkit and now this. BAD SONY!!!

[Kamikaze]

Yeah, I'm sure these screenshots were faked too...

It's not just hearsay.

[Deepblue]

While there have been problems with 360s over-heating in poorly ventillated areas, it looks like the "massive" hardware problems are more hearsay than anything else.

I like the fact that you don't bother to read. Pay attention to what's quoted.

[Kamikaze]

That sounds like a pretty "massive" fault to me. Many console owners put their consoles in poorly ventilated places where they keep their VCR, DVD Player and whatever else. It's bad design. Neither my PS2 or Gamecube does that.

[WeatherOp]

Poof error 45, 46 and 47 pop up on the screen. Followed by some messed up audio and scrambled garbage on the screen..

Yep. They crash.

The good note is I found it not to be a problem with the console but the power supply! That big ugly nightmare of a power supply gets hot sitting on carpet.

If you start crashing suspend the PSU by the cord so air can flow better and it will not crash anymore after it cools off.

This was posted on a local Weather forum, so it's more of the power supply cord, than the system, and that needs to be fixed quick.

[Kosh]

So Sony was just making this worse, figures. They certainly made Windows security a lot worse with their rootkits.

[Deepblue]

That sounds like a pretty "massive" fault to me. Many console owners put their consoles in poorly ventilated places where they keep their VCR, DVD Player and whatever else. It's bad design. Neither my PS2 or Gamecube does that.

Last time I checked a PS2 and GCN were NOT running a tricore processor clocked at 3.2 Ghz with a 500 Mhz GPU. Consoles are becoming much more like PCs, so that means care for them is going to have to change appropriately.

[Night Hammer]

Deepblue posts a sony bashing thread...no kidding

[Nix]

Regardless of what's going on, it's definetly a heat problem.  Sony's console will probably have it as well, along with anything else that's using newer nex-gen hardware.  Lockups like the guy posted on Flickr, especially with the video that's attached to one of the photos that shows the crash in action, make it look like the video card or subsystem is getting too damn hot.  Anyone who's experienced with overclocking thier videocard and hit the max clocks would have seen the tell-tale lines on thier computer screen.  I know I have once, mine were little triangles though running in vertical lines.  I've also heard that older ATI videocards with bad memory chips would do this exact same thing.  I'm betting on a heat problem though.  Newer, faster heat generating hardware needs to BREATHE, and it's a shame that MS didnt' think of a way to provide better active cooling for thier components.

Watch, next thing we'll see is good ol' Jacko saying the XBox 360 is bad for kids cause it will burn down homes!

ookay.. i'm going to bed now..

[phatosealpha]

Well, in defense of deepblue, whether or not you're a fan of the x360, sony resorting to viral mudslinging in the console wars is certainly news.  Something I'd expect from politicians.  As for the problems themselves, look like heat issues to me.  Certainly not the worst problem a console has seen on release, certainly not the hardest thing in the universe to solve.

[Kamikaze]

Last time I checked a PS2 and GCN were NOT running a tricore processor clocked at 3.2 Ghz with a 500 Mhz GPU. Consoles are becoming much more like PCs, so that means care for them is going to have to change appropriately.

It's a MS design problem. Was the original Xbox running three power processors? Nope. It had a celeron. Did it overheat? Yes.

It's perfectly possible to design a system with multiple power processors that doesn't overheat. Apple is selling quad core G5 boxes. They're designed well, they probably don't overheat and crash. Putting three CPUs in a console and not designing for extra cooling is just stupidity on MS's part; heat management in confined spaces is an obvious requirement for entertainment center hardware. Not designing for that is Microsoft's fault.

There shouldn't be any burden on the consumer to take special care to keep the Xbox 360 cool.

[Mefustae]

I'd like to see some conformation of Sony actually starting this "rumour" beyond a link that gives a 404. I'm not saying Sony wouldn't do this, but I just find the notion of MS designing shoddy consoles to be far, far more likely than Sony risking their 'reputation' to orchestrate a moronic rumour that won't do a lick of harm to Xbox360 sales...

[Colonol Dekker]

It looks like this console purists are gonna have to find out how much love a proper piece of hardware needs to run properly. (dont get me wrong i was reaered on master systems and nes before i got my first 286 )

[Kosh]

Was the original Xbox running three power processors? Nope. It had a celeron.

No, it had a lower end P3.

It's perfectly possible to design a system with multiple power processors that doesn't overheat. Apple is selling quad core G5 boxes. They're designed well, they probably don't overheat and crash.

You're missing the point. If the XBox 360 was put in that type of environment, it wouldn't crash either. If this wonder Mac of yours was put into the same confined space that people put their new Xboxes into, it would surely overheat and crash.

[Col. Fishguts]

But it's still bad engineering by Microsoft, or whoever designed the case.

[vyper]

Indeed. Regardless of how it would operate elsewhere the point is it was meant to operate under these conditions and doesn't.

[Jetmech Jr.]

Short and Sweet version: Xbox 360 is a piece of ****, Sony is run by a bunch of douches, and PC's >>>> Consoles.

This is not news.

[pyro-manic]

Interesting, but not wholly unexpected I feel. There's a lot at stake here after all...

[BlackDove]

Sony capitalizing on the ****ness of the Xbox sounds like a good strategy, especially since none of this is untrue. If they were submitting false reports that'd be wrong, but just simply bashing the thing because it blows sounds good.

However what also wouldn't surprise me is that Microsoft is using Sony to divert some of the attention from the fact their console was pre-maturely released.

[aldo_14]

Both MS and Sony will be using the internet in a gossip spreading strategy for their advertising.  I remember, in particular, joystiq.com discovering that a number of emails sent to them 'informing' the release of the first 360 demo machines, had actually been sent from an advertising agency.  Also there's the case of Activision hiring marketers to post fake, glowing reviews of Driver 3 on various internet forums (http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/drivergate/drivergate.htm).

(It's also why I'm so deeply suspicious of anything Deepblue posts.  And amused by the delightful irony of this.......)

Albeit that link gives a 404, so I can't even see the content.  The only related link I saw on 1up is http://xbox360.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3145847, where they confirm they've experienced crashes themselves (and also point out a particular story is very dodgy).

I've read that, incidentally, it's suggested (http://eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=61903) the 360 crashes are due to a PSU overhead when it's kept behind something (y'know, like a cabinet, TV, or where the rest of your cables go).  Given the well publicised problems the original Xbox had (including one that caused a housefire - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/23/xbox_blaze/ - and also the less well publicised slimline PS2 problems of a similar ilk), it'd be very surprising that sort of situation would be allowed to happen.  Given a homogenous machine, that sort of technical error on a new release is (well, would be if it is widespread) indicative of extremely shoddy practice.  It doesn't matter how similar the machine is to a PC, the fact is it's a single hardware combination.  We don't excuse cars with serious faults because they're complicated, after all.