[KillMeNow]

i think my mum put it best - "its like there is a distrubance in the force" - its sort hard to believe and things just feel wrong

[Kazan]

yes.. true... there is a disturbance in the heartbeat of our country, the tension is almost tangible

[Night Hammer]

From what I hear we (U.S.) are going to declare war on Terrorists and countries harboring terrorists and hopefully this crap will never happen again

[Sandwich]

I'm heading off to bed; see you all tommorow.

Oh, and try to get in touch with Snipes/Raa Tor'h - he's supposedly in the process of moving from NY to FLA, but I expected him to have put his 2 cents on this topic a while ago... :-/

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"He who laughs last thinks slowest."
"Just becase you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
"To err is human; to really screw up you need a computer."
Creator of the Sandvich Bar, the CapShip Turret Upgrade, the Complete FS2 Ship List and the System Backgrounds List (all available from the site)

[DragonClaw]

   Yea.. Snipes should have posted here by now   (wow amazingly he's WANTED  )... maybe he got crushed in the crash?  

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    -Director of the staff of Hidden Terror.
    -WebMaster of Imperial Productions

 

The fear always controls our attitude, let us fear no more!

[Kazan]

oh no... snipes...

[DragonClaw]

 

amazing post count huh??? I'm lucky

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    -Director of the staff of Hidden Terror.
    -WebMaster of Imperial Productions

 

The fear always controls our attitude, let us fear no more!

[delta_7890]

as a proud and loyal U.S. citizen, I cannot express my feelings of sorrow for the victims of the tragedy, and I cannot express my utter hatred towards the terrorists that have desicreated this country.  whoever you are, you horrible unfathomly evil monster, you have no idea what load of s*** you've gotten yourself into.  nobody f**** with this country and gets away with it.  when we find out who you are, there will be hell to pay.  we have enough power to render any nation in the world as flat as a pancake by the mere push of a button.  and I pray to everything holy that we do you render you flat.  I may be overreacting, but to see this kind of horror in my own country is unbelievable.  you've cut a wound into us, but we still have a lot of life left.  be afraid.  be very afraid.  in time, our revenge will be exacted upon our attackers.  we will not tolerate terrorism.  I could go on forever, but I'll stop at this:  When our time comes, you will wish you were never born, and you will rot in hell for all of eternity.

[CODEDOG ND]

It doesn't matter who is to blame for causing them to hate us, it's the fact that nothing is worth doing that to anybody.

Nothing is worth blood, both sides are at vault in some way or another.  I'm not going to say fighting never solves anything, because that is far from the truth.  Armed conflicted has solved more problems in the world than peacful ones.

Once all this stuff is cleaned up, then our government will deal with Bin Laden or whoever it is.  Bombing an embacy is one thing, but when you strike at home on american soil something of that size you are playing with a sleeping gaint's toes.  The last time a precision attack occured on the US was on December 7, 1941.  Yamamoto was right and he was a very wise man of opposing the attack on Pearl Harbor.  

Japanese thought that the melting pot of the US would break up after that, but for some reason racism and sectionalism dissappears during war or the similar.  Unfortunatly it only comes during conflict sad to say.

As the man said, "Revenge is best served cold."

[Kazan]

It is a very cold day


My brother called from fort bragg, they are on alert 1

[joek]

 

Originally posted by sandwich:
Lemme put some things straight...

Thank you for your explanations. I don't have true religious beliefs (more like as is quoted in the movie Dogma, I have "ideas" rather than "beliefs")... and as such I just find it hard to believe (but I'm starting to thanks to your explanations), that people would believe in a religion (let alone follow one) that tells them that all people of another faith/ethnicity must be killed because the religion says so.

I mean it's easier to understand (and, in my opinion, deal with) the Nazis. They were like a paranoia-hatred belief against another human race. Theirs wasn't because they believed that "God" told them to kill, kill, kill.

But these, Islams you say?... To hate another people because your religion says to? And what if your religion is wrong? Plus what do you do about these people. Nazis weren't based on religion, just hatred and prejudice, so you can condone acts to stop them... But when it's religious. Religion is something that's been with humans since the beginning. Now when a religion comes around that says that everyone who is not one of us is the "devil" and must be killed... how do you stop that? How do you convince people that their "God", their religion is the wrong "God", the wrong religion?

Just one last question though if you don't mind... so what's the difference between Muslim, Islam, and Arab?

Joe.

[joek]

 

Originally posted by CODEDOG ND:
The last time a precision attack occured on the US was on December 7, 1941.

There is one very big difference between this and Pearl Harbor...

Pearl Harbor was a military attack against a military target.

This is a few hijackers using civilian-filled, commercial aircraft against (except for the Pentagon) civilian targets.

Plus... it was not just an attack against the "American" WTC... destroying the WTC disrupted the global economy.

Joe.

[Black Ace]

Wow.

Right now, thats about the only word I can think of to convey my emotions on today's occurances. Some of you have expressed to me that you wish HLP had taken a more active position in getting the word out. However, you must understand that we have all be very caught up in this whole thing, and its been hard, for me at least, to be able to concentrate on any tasks at hand. I've been watching CNN, CBS, Fox, and ABC since 9 am EST this morning, and never left that TV until 10 pm this evening. Needless to say, my eyes are killing me... Being a Communications major in school, this event has sparked keen interest within my department, and I thats why I dedicated so much of my time to it today.

I will definitely have more replies to some of the statements made here in the thread at a later time, when my thoughts and emotions are more collected. Right now, I can hardly swallow simply from the shear magnitude of this horrific catastrophy. I am tense with disturbing anger, yet at the same time, filled with emmense sadness for the loved ones of the victims who perished today. This should be a serious reminder to all of us, religious or not, that our lives are very precious and fragile, and can be taken from us in an instant. There was no warning. When those people left their desks last night, they had full intention of resuming their various projects the next morning. Now those people are dead. A very sobering thought that none of us should let die easily.  

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[Ace]

Well Maeg, the true solution to the problem is stamping out individuality of entire peoples and cultural rape in truth.

What? We're being accused of that by these people?

Making it intentional and a plan within two generations, instead of the current six with four of terrorism with increasing amounts is required.

Not ethnic cleansing, not the killing of actual persons, but the categorising and destruction of cultural systems via Western education and intergration in earnest.

Why has such a thing never truly occured?

Because human beings are unable to think in terms of true long term planning.

Our last generation has been a failure due to it's being so... practical, and expedient.

Why are we not in space? No true resources, and NASA's budget is cut due to the data being nothing more then categorizing basics.

Pardon my cynicism, but the Western method of thought is literally incompatable with other modes of thinking.

Look at history, look at now, either a futile effort at tolerance is made (which makes us appear more "weak" to some) which in the end only strengthens the mindset, or active assimilation occurs...

If the active assimilation occurs, then there is a chance for the original cultures to resurge out of rebellion as a novelty in youth, and forms a healthy tension.

If the current path occurs, well look at Wall Street, and look at the lack of innovation within beaurocracy.

We'll be forced into different avenues and frontiers, when the other mindset gives Earth room enough... (once again, I'm easily accused of vastly over simplifying the issue for the method of the context it's written within, however the gross estimation does become this)

Edit: I heard mentions of Echelon earlier in this thread, mainly with Deus Ex  

In actuality, though we do have Echelon, the little known fact is that the NSA despite having satillites in orbit that can pick out Lincoln's head on a penny and tap every E-Mail and phonecall on the planet can't compile the data at all. The computer crashes are so frequent that they *wish* they were using Windows. (one of the main reasons why the CIA and FBI are far more effective in traditional investigation, since the NSA's "techno powress" is very experimental and designed against a known target *cough* Russia *cough*, not broad monitoring)

Edit#2: Also going back on the thread, I noticed the mention on US military moves and oil transport.

Interesting enough that I had to watch British and Canadian news before I even heard of our under the table military movements.

Yes, all that Bush is concerned about at this moment is maintaining our oil supplies, a move which more then can escallate this issue.

If he contacted the moderate states, and asked them to guard "US oil interests" then with some proper talking he could give the US a better appearance in their face during this crisis. (having the resolve not to move in against allies and neutral parties)

No matter how much we in the US wish to blame the Mid East for the issue, we cannot appear to be moving against it until a proven enemy is found.

This is a tactical error on our government, mainly due to the aforementioned lack of ability to plan.

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Ace
Staff member FreeSpace Watch
 http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/

[This message has been edited by Ace (edited 09-11-2001).]

[Xelion]

  I extend sympathy to those who lost loved ones in the terrorist attack. May God help us all.

As for the rest: No Comment

Max

[Darkage]

I have been watching the news last from 10 min before the second plane crashed,that was from 3pm here till 5am in the morning.I have no words to discribe this and the magnatute that those basterds coulddo something like this.This time the inteligence has failed.  
If iam not mistakeing the inteleigence has stoped 12 plane bombings in one sigle day in 1995.But if they didn't know about it the consequenses where not to be seen.I share my feelings whit the everyone that has lost friends ore famaly.

May god be whit you.

[This message has been edited by darkage (edited 09-12-2001).]

[Setekh]

This is the biggest thing I've seen happen since... since I don't know when. Since ever, in my lifetime.

The word down here in Australia is heavy. Every public channel is doing all-day coverage, and has been doing so since about 11pm last night, when the first plane impacted (11pm our time).

No-one has drawn responsibility yet. America doesn't have a target to fire at, which is why I doubt that the Kabul assault was the US's doing. Even then, as has been said before, they can't trample over an entire country for a few terrorists inside them, just the same as they couldn't have shot down those civilian liners.

A lot of political experts down here are pointing fingers at Pakistan for the hijackings - because the Pakistani people are huge supporters of the Taliban, and the Taliban are bound by their own code to refrain from terrorist acts. Pakistan has the means and the motive. But I'm not going to say anything just yet; I think we've all got to let the dust settle a bit before we all get too angry.

Rest assured, America will strike back for this - the most powerful country in the world would not tolerate this, would not let the perpetrators get away without any punishment. And once they've attacked the Pentagon, it's almost as if that's the precursor to moving up to DEFCON1 - the Pentagon is the military symbol of America. That is how we are reading from Australia, for now.

Reports here are that there were six planes - two 767s which took down both the North and South towers of the WTC, two 757s - one of which kamikazed into the Pentagon, the other attempting to get to the White House, but being unsuccessful. The other two were speculated to have been aimed towards President Bush's private retreat, but never reached their destinations. These are the reports from here, and I have no idea on their validity, though inaccuracies are mostly small and severely insignificant on the scale of things.

We just heard of the rescue team, comprising of about 300 firemen, who went in after the plane impacts, but were caught when the buildings collapsed. Missing presumed dead.  

(Has anyone heard from Raa? I hope he's alright...)  

The gravity of the situation is serious. All day in school, the only thing we've been doing is watching live CNN on TV. My prayers to all - I mean all.  

[Darkage]

i got a few maps of the WTC towers and the petagon and the last one is a map of the USA whit events on it.I hope noboby has objections about it if i post them? all of them grafs and where the planes have crashed in and what buildings it damaged when the WTC came down.

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[Setekh]

By all means - actually, I'm kind of curious, as a lot of the information that we're getting is - well - not quite right. Please, do.

(NB. If anyone does object, we can simply remove it later.)

[Pez]

 

Originally posted by Ace:
Why is America "so disliked?" it's due to foreign policy designed by beaurocracy and conflicting personalities.

Hiroshima, Vietnam, the Gulfwar, the support to Israel, the embargo against Iraq, the bombing of former Yugoslavia.

That makes a pretty nice list..eh. Even if some of these action it's not just USA alone involved.

USA has the greatest military in the world and they have used this military force in many situations. Sometimes with a good purpose, sometimes with a not so good.

Personally I don't have any against the citizens in USA. _But_ I don't always agree what the goverment of USA have done (I can also say that I always don't agree with my own goverments way of handling things). And out there in the world there are people with different opionions than the USA and it seems like both sides want to get rid of each other.

Pez