[pecenipicek]

Well, i have to say, some of the hi-poly meshes have completely lost the feel of FS2. for example, the Orion(Bobboau, Stratcomm or Vasudan Admiral, not sure, it had both awesome modelling and texturing), it completely lost the feel of a effin' huge ship which could kick arse from Earth to Vasuda Prime and back, it now just looks... wrong. dont get me wrong guys, all those are nice models and meshes, but most of you people HTL-ing have completely missed the FS2 feel to the ships.

as fine examples of awesome hi-polying, the Aeolus, Levy, Fenris, Deimos, Perseus, Serapis(spelling?), Herc mkI, Myrmidon.
most awesome meshes that managed to retain the FS2 feel to it, without straying too much in the "artistic freedom" area, whilst retaining full beauty of them (these are in the mediavp's)

as bad examples... well, for one the hi-poly Hecate which someone is doing... Quad turrets? a terran ship so smooth? the hell no.
the Moloch which is gettign hi-polyed? it looks exactly like the ingame model with a few bits attached. simply not working for me.
the Erinyes which is already in the MediaVP's. the texturing is SO UTTERLY WRONG it cannot be described by words. the nose simply kills it for me.

those that werent reffered to as being in the media VP's are from the FSU forum...

your thoughts people?

[Mr_Maniac]

Well... I like the Hi-Poly-Ships...
For me, those ships didn't kill the FS2-Feeling... Just.. Enhanced it...

[starfox]

Me likes them too, just one thing I don't understand. What excatly is the real "feel" of Freespace 2 ships ? How that feeling could be described ?
IMO the current HTL Ships are massive imrovement over the "old" ones, both visually and technically.

[pecenipicek]

most of them are, but my line of thought is that some simply do not touch the FS2 feel exactly, especially the ones adding some things never seen or mentioned in FS2(the hecate quad turrets for example), and oftentimes, some HTL-ers go completely overboard with hi-polying...

[starfox]

Well. I'll have to admit the quad turrets kinda suprised me. Too much Star Wars like, maybe.

[karajorma]

One thing to remember is that the HTL ships are completely optional so if you don't like some of them all you have to do is extract the old versions from Sparky.vp and compile a new media VP which you give priority over mv_models.vp.

Pretty simple really and it allows you enjoy the models you do like.

Personally I've liked all the high-poly models better than the original versions so I use them all even in the cases where I think there could be improvements.

[Col. Fishguts]

To quote the (in)famous Darksaber: "If you don't like it, make it yourself."

[Prophet]

I have to say I somewhat agree with pecenipicek...

HTL models are all great models, I have nothing against them... It is important to remember that some HTL models might feel un-FS2-ish because they are different. Orion for example, good looking model, different from the original. That should not be. All that time we have played with vanilla models, and then we get same ships with slight differences. And you can sense that something is wrong (that may be a strong word), it is not something obvious, but you still feel it.

Another thing is that to some people, polycount=quality. Low poly model can still be good (original Aten still fits with HTL Fenris). I feel I must metion how I hate the "wing it!"-comments new models often recive. But I just dont understand adding "detail" just for the sake of upping the polycount.
But back on topic...

HTL Fenris is a good example of good HTL-ing. It still feels like the good ol' Fenris/Leviathan just like the HTL Orion doesn't. There is no humbug additions in Fenris. I again remind you I think there is nothing wrong in the Orion model itself, it just is different from the original.


What concerns me is this: Are FS models becoming "modernized"?
Consider the new BSG series for a moment and compare it to the old movie... What did they do to the ships? I liked the old Galactica, and the new Cylon Raider is just hideous (old one is one of the best spaceship models in existance). Are FS models evolving?

All the HTL model changes have been discussed in these boards. Minor changes in some models have been accepted. "It's just a small change, and it looks cool" (I too have thought like this on occasion). But what was not considered, is that when there are a number of these minor changes, how do they change the look of the game when compared to the old game? And is this change good?


Another concern of mine: Will the modellers see this as hostile topic and get angry at us who think differently?
Don't! There are many HTL models that really look good while still maintaining the rugged FS2 feel.

[karajorma]

As I said there's no reason why you can't use the old models until someone who feels similarly gets around to making the ships you feel are wrong.

[BlackDove]

What karajorma said.

Personally I don't "feel" anything when I see them. I just know what they are and that's good enough for me. The fact that they look way much better than their old low-poly models is just simply for graphics sake which is much better as far as I'm concerned. I still get the same message, as I used to.

[CP5670]

I have seen a number of things showcased around here that have deviated too far from the old designs, but I think all the high poly models currently in the vps are pretty faithful to the originals. I like them all so far.

That being said, I don't use the Orion model, but not because the model is too different from the old one. There is an issue with the placement of some subsystems on that ship, which is making one of my missions a lot harder than it should be. This should be an easy fix though.

Another thing is that to some people, polycount=quality.

This is true. I think some of the fighters in particular have too high polycounts considering their size and/or level of detail. In many cases though it's really the textures that are the problem. Some of the new models are very good but are still running off the old textures, so as a result they look almost the same as the originals. I think these will look far better once their textures are improved.

[MrBig101]

I think some HTL ships could be changed a bit.  Like a Herc or Ulysses, for example.  Why make it all shiny and brand sparkling new, when you could make it look like a P.O.S., complete with battle scars and damaged hull?  Keep in mind those ships are 30+ years old.  Maybe I'd like to fly a worn down herc once in a while.  The shiny herc does look awesome though...

[aldo_14]

If you want people to make HTL versions of ships, you have to be prepared to allow them artistic freedom to do so.  Not like people get paid for this, after all.

[WeatherOp]

Another thing, take a look at a random HTL thread, Galemp's Dis for instance, the thread has 1,111 views vs 39 replies.

So, here is the way I think, if you haven't posted to tell the moddeler what, why and how the model needs to be changed, your opinion does not count. It's not like we can read your minds to see what you like and dislike.

[Ghost]

I for one think that Bob/Galemp's Orion makes it far more intimidating, and gives it a better sense of a 2 km long warship. Recalls modern-day aircraft carriers, only on a larger scale. And the Hecate that I have in the media VPs doesn't have quad turrets, and who cares if it's that smooth? So is the Deimos, and that's one of the ones you praised. Hell, the stock model for the Hecate was smooth. It's been influenced by Vasudan design. Get over it. And yes, to repeat what's been said, if you don't like it, make your own.

[aldo_14]

I think some HTL ships could be changed a bit. Like a Herc or Ulysses, for example. Why make it all shiny and brand sparkling new, when you could make it look like a P.O.S., complete with battle scars and damaged hull? Keep in mind those ships are 30+ years old. Maybe I'd like to fly a worn down herc once in a while. The shiny herc does look awesome though...

The design is 30 years old.   Given the survivability rate of fighters in FS1 and FS2, I'd be surprised if many of those ships would have survived unaltered (or unreplaced by newer manufactures).  Plus, why would they leave a fighter with a damaged or scarred hull?

EDIT; although both already have damage anyways on the V maps.  For one thing, the Ulysses has a number of bullet-scar type details on it.

[Kie99]

The only HTL ship I dislike is the Deimos, the tech descroption specifies it as sleek, but then there are great big armour belts along the sides of it.

[MrBig101]

The design is 30 years old.   Given the survivability rate of fighters in FS1 and FS2, I'd be surprised if many of those ships would have survived unaltered (or unreplaced by newer manufactures).  Plus, why would they leave a fighter with a damaged or scarred hull?

Running out of money, perhaps?  I dunno.  I just want to fly a damaged fighter.  Maybe those decals can do the trick...

[aldo_14]

Running out of money, perhaps? I dunno. I just want to fly a damaged fighter. Maybe those decals can do the trick..

(quotes went funny, I'm assuming this is the relevant bit)

Sure, I have no objection to damaged skins.  But just not for the default HTL model.

[StratComm]

I'll be honest, threads like this one really tick me off.  And it's not because people disagree with an implimentation of a model, it's because we (be that Bob, or Galemp, or Raa, or FireCrack, or WeatherOp, or Raven, or Nico, or myself, or anyone else who spends their free time to build these things) get crap no matter what we do to improve them.  If you still want the old Orion, it's a two minute job to extract it from the retail VPs and we don't have to hear about it.  If you want to make a high poly one yourself, then please do so.  If you want to make suggestions about how to improve them, then that's great too.  Every person I listed, besides maybe Nico (who's the best moddeler among us anyway) actually takes that sort of thing into consideration (not that you'll see it necessarily, but we do listen and often try them out).  Simply saying that something "is bad" is helpful to no-one.  Especially when people say polar opposite things and expect everything to be perfect.

Oh, by the way, one damaged ship is fine, but if you apply it to the HTL model, you wind up with every instance of the class being damaged in the exact same way.